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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 10 Jan 2013 (Thursday) 08:22
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EF mount's obselences

 
RDKirk
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Jan 11, 2013 07:29 |  #31

pulsar123 wrote in post #15470264 (external link)
As a result, the inevitable transition from DSLR to mirrorless should be much less painful (and EOS lens depreciation much slower) than in the case of FD-EOS transition.

Having painfully gone through the FD/EF transition, I can certainly see this next transition being much easier. Although I hated it at the time, I now find reason to applaud Canon's foresight in creating the EF mount. It will even make this inevitable transition gracefully.

Canon is almost the bottom of the mirrorless-barrel

The advantage of being the big dog on the porch is that when a smaller dog brings in a juicy bone, the big dog can take it. Remember that Minolta caught Canon totally by surprise with autofocus and had a three year head start...but Canon took that bone from Minolta anyway. Raw manufacturing and marketing prowess counts.

The only company Canon has to fear is Sony, and Sony tends to shoot itself in the foot often enough.

I can see the technology in mirrorless improving overtime. EVFs will get higher density, brighter, and faster. AF system will get faster. The one thing the small cameras really lack are ergonomics and I don't see anyone making a more SLR-like mirrorless. I prefer a beefier camera with dedicated buttons, dials, and wheels. I don't want to have to navigate a menu system to change my exposure or focus point.

That would be the Olympus OM-D (external link), with the form-factor of an SLR...but no mirror inside and sporting an LCD in the viewfinder. The problem with the OM-D (IMO) is that Olympus is unfortunately wedded to the Four Thirds sensor.

But something along the same lines would be an easy transition concept for Canon, starting with the Rebel series.


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Hogloff
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Jan 11, 2013 08:07 |  #32
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les_au wrote in post #15473889 (external link)
mike i am kind of with you here i cannot see the point in having a nice compact camera and hang a long lens off it that makes it a nightmare to hold while trying to focus with an lcd screen

Why do you need to focus through your LCD. I have an X100 and focus through it's viewfinder.




  
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Hogloff
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Jan 11, 2013 08:12 |  #33
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Neilyb wrote in post #15473893 (external link)
They just released 3 lenses over 10k each and are due to release another, don't think DSLRs or EF mount is heading anywhere for now.

Yep...but those are niche lens. Don't think Canon is not concerned with the mirrorless camera tide on it's way. Why do you think they released their own somewhat feeble mirrorless.

These mirrorless cameras will take out the bread and butter rebel series of cameras within 5 years. That is where Canon makes a ton of revenue. They will be forced to deal with the mirrorless craze, leaving the DSLR systems to a high priced specialized ( sports, wildlife etc... ) niches. People who don't see this coming just have not really seen the excitement around the compact mirrorless systems being offered today. Look at how much they advanced in 5 years. I wonder what their capabilities will be in another 5 years.




  
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waterrockets
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Jan 11, 2013 08:59 |  #34

Hogloff wrote in post #15474390 (external link)
Why do you need to focus through your LCD. I have an X100 and focus through it's viewfinder.

So, if you put a 300mm f2.8 on there, will you be looking at a bright 100% coverage image in the viewfinder?

How does 2nd curtain flash sync look on that body for bike racing?


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Hogloff
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Jan 11, 2013 09:10 |  #35
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waterrockets wrote in post #15474549 (external link)
So, if you put a 300mm f2.8 on there, will you be looking at a bright 100% coverage image in the viewfinder?

How does 2nd curtain flash sync look on that body for bike racing?

Niche market applications. There will still be DSLR for these applications, but expect to shell out more $$$ in the future to stay on these niche markets.

Don't forget mirrirless is in it's infancy. Remember the 1st incarnations of DSLR's some 10 years ago. Look at where we are today in just a decade. I see the same happening with mirrorless.

Oh, and your sports, they will be taken with a digital mirrorless movie camera and your stills will be extracted from the movie clip. Give it 10 years and today's DSLR will be dinasaurs.




  
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pulsar123
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Jan 11, 2013 09:22 |  #36

mike_d wrote in post #15473519 (external link)
I can see the technology in mirrorless improving overtime. EVFs will get higher density, brighter, and faster. AF system will get faster. The one thing the small cameras really lack are ergonomics and I don't see anyone making a more SLR-like mirrorless. I prefer a beefier camera with dedicated buttons, dials, and wheels. I don't want to have to navigate a menu system to change my exposure or focus point.

Can't you see the trend with sensor sizes? Larger sensor become more and more affordable. I can see FF sensors in entrance level cameras (P&S and mirrorless) a few years down the row. This technology advancement will make even larger sensors (medium format - say, double FF in terms of surface area) fairly affordable. I predict the future of pro and semi-pro photography is in medium format mirrorless cameras. That will make the cameras and lenses again hefty and ergonomic, and MF vs FF will be a nice price differentiation for manufacturers.

So start buying MF lenses now - they will be in high demand in a few years :).


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waterrockets
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Jan 11, 2013 09:31 |  #37

Hogloff wrote in post #15474593 (external link)
Niche market applications. There will still be DSLR for these applications, but expect to shell out more $$$ in the future to stay on these niche markets.

Don't forget mirrirless is in it's infancy. Remember the 1st incarnations of DSLR's some 10 years ago. Look at where we are today in just a decade. I see the same happening with mirrorless.

Oh, and your sports, they will be taken with a digital mirrorless movie camera and your stills will be extracted from the movie clip. Give it 10 years and today's DSLR will be dinasaurs.

I know things will advance. I welcome -- and I create -- state of the art technology and the changes it brings.

I just don't see the benefit of the current batch and direction of mirrorless tech for my use. Pulling a frame out of video is too much of a "it's good enough for everyone" mentality. What if I want super crisp video for an auto race, but for the stills, I want blurred panning? That can be achieved in post by stacking video frames, but we're a loooong way from this stuff being easy or desirable.

What I don't want to happen is to be forced into a pigeon hole along with everyone else. Home Depot assumes that I only want to pay $1 for a pocket tape measure. So, unless I want UPS to burn gas bringing me a real tape, I have to buy the lowest common denominator in pocket tapes and bring it out to my shop to modify it so it actually works. I would gladly pay $8 for a real tape at Home Depot, but they don't even offer one because they are maximizing profits in a generic manner. Generic solutions for everyone are not a good thing.

I'm sure that at some point, mirrorless cameras will satisfy all my needs, but we'll have to see. Right now, they are way off.


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Hogloff
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Jan 11, 2013 09:51 |  #38
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waterrockets wrote in post #15474672 (external link)
I know things will advance. I welcome -- and I create -- state of the art technology and the changes it brings.

I just don't see the benefit of the current batch and direction of mirrorless tech for my use. Pulling a frame out of video is too much of a "it's good enough for everyone" mentality. What if I want super crisp video for an auto race, but for the stills, I want blurred panning? That can be achieved in post by stacking video frames, but we're a loooong way from this stuff being easy or desirable.

What I don't want to happen is to be forced into a pigeon hole along with everyone else. Home Depot assumes that I only want to pay $1 for a pocket tape measure. So, unless I want UPS to burn gas bringing me a real tape, I have to buy the lowest common denominator in pocket tapes and bring it out to my shop to modify it so it actually works. I would gladly pay $8 for a real tape at Home Depot, but they don't even offer one because they are maximizing profits in a generic manner. Generic solutions for everyone are not a good thing.

I'm sure that at some point, mirrorless cameras will satisfy all my needs, but we'll have to see. Right now, they are way off.

Unfortunately, consumer electronics ( which DSLR's are ) are always marketed towards the lowest common denominator where the big revenues are. Other niche markets ( big lenses for example ) always cost big bucks because of the low demand for them. You can put your heels into the dirt and resist, but doing so will continue to cost you more $$$ than going with the flow.

This exact same disucssion occurred when AF cameras and lenses came on main stream and when digital first rose it head. Technology and the mass movement always wins out in the end.




  
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waterrockets
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Jan 11, 2013 10:00 |  #39

Hogloff wrote in post #15474738 (external link)
Unfortunately, consumer electronics ( which DSLR's are ) are always marketed towards the lowest common denominator where the big revenues are. Other niche markets ( big lenses for example ) always cost big bucks because of the low demand for them. You can put your heels into the dirt and resist, but doing so will continue to cost you more $$$ than going with the flow.

This exact same disucssion occurred when AF cameras and lenses came on main stream and when digital first rose it head. Technology and the mass movement always wins out in the end.

That's not entirely true, as MF lenses and film cameras are not prohibitively expensive right now. No reason to think DSLRs will be.

As I said, I'm not resisting any new technology as long as it satisfies my needs. Eventually all the same creative solutions will be available without a flip mirror and a mechanical shutter, and that's fine. Right now, they haven't solved all the problems.


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Jan 11, 2013 10:01 |  #40

I don't think Canon's DSLRs - and their EF lenses - are going away very soon. By that, I mean that I think they will be around for at least another 6 or 7 years.

Why? Well, I don't know of any manufacturer making any serious telephoto primes yet. None.

Canon just updated ALL of it's supertelephoto lenses, except for the 800mm, but that's only a few years old, anyway. So, they updated all of the supertelephotos costing $7,000 and up, and they haven't offered any supertelephotos for the tiny mirrorless system yet. That tells me we've got at least several years to go.

Canon doesn't abandon new, premium products after just a couple years - they suck every dime they can out of 'em.


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Hogloff
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Jan 11, 2013 10:14 |  #41
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waterrockets wrote in post #15474763 (external link)
That's not entirely true, as MF lenses and film cameras are not prohibitively expensive right now. No reason to think DSLRs will be.

As I said, I'm not resisting any new technology as long as it satisfies my needs. Eventually all the same creative solutions will be available without a flip mirror and a mechanical shutter, and that's fine. Right now, they haven't solved all the problems.

Thats because MF is dead from any new developments. You are buying and using old systems. Now look at MF Digital...that is another story.




  
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Hogloff
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Jan 11, 2013 10:15 |  #42
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Tom Reichner wrote in post #15474770 (external link)
I don't think Canon's DSLRs - and their EF lenses - are going away very soon. By that, I mean that I think they will be around for at least another 6 or 7 years.

Why? Well, I don't know of any manufacturer making any serious telephoto primes yet. None.

Canon just updated ALL of it's supertelephoto lenses, except for the 800mm, but that's only a few years old, anyway. So, they updated all of the supertelephotos costing $7,000 and up, and they haven't offered any supertelephotos for the tiny mirrorless system yet. That tells me we've got at least several years to go.

Canon doesn't abandon new, premium products after just a couple years - they suck every dime they can out of 'em.

Yes, but those are a niche market which they will still support with DSLR, but you'll have to pay for it. The bread and butter market, lower end, will be run over by the new mirrorless craze.




  
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Jan 11, 2013 10:18 |  #43

pulsar123 wrote in post #15474633 (external link)
Can't you see the trend with sensor sizes? Larger sensor become more and more affordable. I can see FF sensors in entrance level cameras (P&S and mirrorless) a few years down the row. This technology advancement will make even larger sensors (medium format - say, double FF in terms of surface area) fairly affordable. I predict the future of pro and semi-pro photography is in medium format mirrorless cameras. That will make the cameras and lenses again hefty and ergonomic, and MF vs FF will be a nice price differentiation for manufacturers.

So start buying MF lenses now - they will be in high demand in a few years :).

As long as you guess correctly on what the preferred mount will be. Guess wrong and you're screwed...


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Jan 11, 2013 10:34 |  #44

RPCrowe wrote in post #15473404 (external link)
And, IMO, mirrorless is at the bottom of the photo barrel.

Based on what criteria? There are cameras in the current mirrorless generation such as the Oly E-M5 or the Sony Nex 6/7 with image quality that is superior to any Canon crop offering. They also offer arguably higher usability with a highly customizable interface.

The primary remaining weakness are continuous AF performance and EVF quality, but both of those weaknesses will inevitably be addressed within a few years. Sony's most recent generation of EVF on the A99 and Nex 6 is supposed to be a big step forward, and subsequent generations will only continue to improve. I doubt it will take more than 5 years or so for EVF image quality to surpass most optical finders.

Once the image quality is there, there are some additional benefits to be realized from the use of an EVF, such as placement flexibility (see: Nex 6/7), view magnification, and the ability to overlay any desired information (e.g. histogram).

RPCrowe wrote in post #15473404 (external link)
I would NEVER own a camera that did not have an integral and optical through the lens eye level viewfinder...

Even when the quality/clarity presented by an EVF matches or exceeds that of optical viewfinders?

For the record, I have a strong dislike for (current) EVF's as well. I currently use an Oly E-M5 in addition to my full frame kit, and I hate going from the full frame optical finder to the EVF. However, that does not prevent me from realizing that technology continues its rapid march forward.




  
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Jan 11, 2013 10:46 |  #45

Hogloff wrote in post #15474818 (external link)
Thats because MF is dead from any new developments. You are buying and using old systems. Now look at MF Digital...that is another story.

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EF mount's obselences
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