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Thread started 12 Jan 2013 (Saturday) 00:03
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How is the <$2000 D600 so much better than 5DmIII ???

 
Hogloff
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Jan 12, 2013 08:24 |  #31
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KhaledA wrote in post #15478408 (external link)
Ironically enough, taking a picture of a cat and judging how sharp it is, is much closer to real world testing than scientific mumbo jumbo that in the end doesn't really tell you how the camera/lens performs in a given situation.

Maybe for you, but I would rather have scientific repeatable tests that are duplicated on different cameras so we can compare apples to apples. Taking a picture of a cat is not reproducible, repeatable between cameras or in fact with the same camera. Also, sharpness is but just one attribute of a camera that needs to be tested and in fact the sharpness of your cat is more dependent on the lens and not the camera.




  
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Hogloff
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Jan 12, 2013 08:27 |  #32
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gh patriot wrote in post #15478450 (external link)
Give me a break, your not saying that the autofocus system of the D600 compares to the 5D3 are you? My keepers at a dark wedding venue went from 30-40% with my 5D2 to 90% in focus with my 5D3's. Are you suggesting that I just suddenly got twice as good at focusing over night or did the autofocus system have something to do with it???

No, I am saying the focus on the D600 is pretty damn good. Have you tried one?




  
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Jan 12, 2013 08:28 |  #33

JakAHearts wrote in post #15478459 (external link)
Im with you in this regard. The Mark III AF is ridiculously good. I almost see no point in it having one shot AF mode.

ohhhh man, comments like these make me want to go and spend some $$ ^_^ I'm still using a pair of 5D2s but I also rock 1D4. The AF on 1D4 is soooo good, I never keep it in one shot AF ;] 5D3 must rock:)


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gh ­ patriot
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Jan 12, 2013 08:29 |  #34

Hogloff wrote in post #15478474 (external link)
No, I am saying the focus on the D600 is pretty damn good. Have you tried one?


No but I have never heard a legitimite claim that its better than the 5D3 either.So did I just suddenly get better or did the 5D3 autofocus system make a difference?


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Hogloff
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Jan 12, 2013 08:47 |  #35
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gh patriot wrote in post #15478489 (external link)
No but I have never heard a legitimite claim that its better than the 5D3 either.So did I just suddenly get better or did the 5D3 autofocus system make a difference?

Don't know...maybe you just did not know how to use a center-point only camera. Maybe your skills with such camera were lacking. I just know that the 5d2 produced amazing photos this past 5 years when used in capable hands.

The majority of Reuters 100 best photos of 2012 were shot with the lacking AF 5d2 camera...all in the hands of skilled photographers.




  
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gh ­ patriot
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Jan 12, 2013 08:53 |  #36

Hogloff wrote in post #15478550 (external link)
Don't know...maybe you just did not know how to use a center-point only camera. Maybe your skills with such camera were lacking. I just know that the 5d2 produced amazing photos this past 5 years when used in capable hands.

The majority of Reuters 100 best photos of 2012 were shot with the lacking AF 5d2 camera...all in the hands of skilled photographers.

I produced tons of great photos with my 5D2, I just have way more to pick from now. No one said you couldn't with the 5D2, but it really sounds like your still trying to say that the 5D3 autofocus isn't better than the D600 or the 5D3. That is my point, its better. Period. I can still shoot centerpoint only with my 5D3 now and it still does better than my 5D2. The OP was comparing the D600 to the 5D3, the autofocus system in the 5D3 is better.


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Hogloff
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Jan 12, 2013 09:04 |  #37
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gh patriot wrote in post #15478565 (external link)
I produced tons of great photos with my 5D2, I just have way more to pick from now. No one said you couldn't with the 5D2, but it really sounds like your still trying to say that the 5D3 autofocus isn't better than the D600 or the 5D3. That is my point, its better. Period. I can still shoot centerpoint only with my 5D3 now and it still does better than my 5D2. The OP was comparing the D600 to the 5D3, the autofocus system in the 5D3 is better.

No, I am not arguing that the 5d3 AF is better than the 5d2 or the D600...but you started all this off saying

gh patriot wrote in post #15478381 (external link)
D600 doesn't even come close to 5D3 in its autofocus system, and you cant fix out of focus no matter how much dynamic range you have.

which is implying you cannot get a sharp focused shot with the measily D600. I am saying today's cameras AF are all exceptional and you just need to know how to use each to get the most out of them. Obviously if shooting sports is important, than a more responsive camera will be better suited...but it does not mean a lesser camera cannot get you great photos.

If AF was so important to you...why not 1dx or in fact the new Sony which I hear is great with AF.




  
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gh ­ patriot
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Jan 12, 2013 09:08 |  #38

Hogloff wrote in post #15478600 (external link)
No, I am not arguing that the 5d3 AF is better than the 5d2 or the D600...but you started all this off saying

which is implying you cannot get a sharp focused shot with the measily D600. I am saying today's cameras AF are all exceptional and you just need to know how to use each to get the most out of them. Obviously if shooting sports is important, than a more responsive camera will be better suited...but it does not mean a lesser camera cannot get you great photos.

If AF was so important to you...why not 1dx or in fact the new Sony which I hear is great with AF.


Your assumptions are wrong. I did not imply you cannot get a sharp focused shot with the D600. I said its autofocus system is inferior to the 5D3 which is true and one reason why it costs more. Why not 1DX? I can have 2 5D3 for cost of one 1DX and I need two bodies for events. Plus I prefer the smaller size of the 5D3 to the 1DX and I don't own any sony glass.

The same person with a 5D3 can have better autofocus results than with a 5D2. Their skill level remains the same but the tool they are using is more capable. The person is able to get MORE out of his tool. They still get the most out of it but are able to get more out of it.


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hyogen
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Jan 12, 2013 09:31 |  #39

JakAHearts wrote in post #15478442 (external link)
OP, I think if you upgrade and continue to take the same shots that are on your 500px, you will be sadly disappointed. I had an idea the other day to start a thread called "Look at this terrible shot". I wanted to do it because sometimes I cant believe the garbage that comes out of my 5D3 and 70-200L II. My favorite image from last year was a shot I took just minutes after one of those "man, that looks like garbage" shots. Same lens, same camera, same subject. What was different? We moved about 10 feet to a different area of shade. It really is all about the light, and then some good post work. :D

What do you suggest? Off camera lighting? Hehe, I don't doubt ill be producing a fair amount of garbage shots even after I go full frame. :D


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John ­ Sheehy
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Jan 12, 2013 10:09 |  #40

Hogloff wrote in post #15478465 (external link)
Maybe for you, but I would rather have scientific repeatable tests that are duplicated on different cameras so we can compare apples to apples. Taking a picture of a cat is not reproducible, repeatable between cameras or in fact with the same camera. Also, sharpness is but just one attribute of a camera that needs to be tested and in fact the sharpness of your cat is more dependent on the lens and not the camera.

Most of the examples that people post from their cameras are fairly meaningless, for the purpose of demonstrating their camera's abilities and limits.

You see downsampled images presented as "sharp", but really, anyone who can't get a sharp result for a web-size image needs to go to ImageProcessing 101, even from a joke camera. Or, someone does a tiny image downsized with "Nearest Neighbor" that is clearly DISTORTED with extreme aliasing, to which people reply, "WOW! What detail and clarity!!!".

If you talk about your experience with AF on a camera, people will ask for an example, never once stopping to think that an example of a sharp result tells you absolutely nothing about all the shots that miss and are never shown; proof of AF accuracy or speed would require 100% crops of a long series of images taken with none of them omitted.

Then, there's the "here's my FF camera at ISO 3200" where they show us a 450x300 image, which is not challenging even for a 1/2.3"-sensor compact these days. ISOs in the hundreds of thousands are where we should expect to see major differences at that size. I cringe when I see how easily people are impressed with technical abilities of cameras from samples that come nowhere near the real issues of the limits of current imaging products.

Of course, DxO doesn't show the whole picture, even for the RAW data. It ignores line noises, which are much more image-interfering than their contribution to a monolithic standard deviation would suggest. Being that Canon has more line noise than Sony or Nikon sensors, DxO actually handicaps Canon performance, giving Canons better scores than they actually deserve in many cases, in read-noise-based measurements, especially for the 5D2 which has pretty high levels of line noise for a relatively recent camera.




  
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vaflower
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Jan 12, 2013 10:25 |  #41

Work with what you are comfortable with. Really. I have made a point of buying only lenses and camera that I feel good ergonomically.

The main reasons I went from 5dmkii to 5dmkiii mainly because of some minor ergonomic features. Of course, now I used 5dmk iii for sometimes, I really love what the extra AF points can do.

The Nikon is no go because of the lack of the joystick and wheel dial apart from the messy outside cosmetics. But I am sure it will do its job for people familiar with Nikon ergonomics.


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Alex_Venom
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Jan 12, 2013 10:27 |  #42

Hogloff wrote in post #15478474 (external link)
No, I am saying the focus on the D600 is pretty damn good. Have you tried one?

Sorry to jump into the discussion, but I did. D600, D800 and 5D3.
D600 is good.
D800 is very good.
5D3 is ABSURDLY good.

Not telling any of those is bad. But the 5D3 AF is in a whole another league compared to the D600. Specially if you shoot low light (without the help of the AF illuminator on the Nikons) and even better if you use far left/right points.

Dang, I have to really push things for the 5D3 to misfocus! ;)


Photography is about GEAR and not talent or practice. Practice won't make you a better photographer. Expensive equipment will. =D
"Nobody can buy a scalpel and become a doctor, but anyone can buy a camera and become a photographer."

  
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hyogen
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Jan 12, 2013 10:41 |  #43

Nice signature ;)


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Jan 12, 2013 10:45 |  #44

hyogen wrote in post #15478663 (external link)
What do you suggest? Off camera lighting? Hehe, I don't doubt ill be producing a fair amount of garbage shots even after I go full frame. :D

I dont think your shots are garbage, it just that I dont think youll see the kind of improvement that you might expect. Sure, they might be slightly higher resolution, and the DOF will be slightly different, but those are things you said you didnt care much about. You dont know anyone that has a full frame you can borrow/use?


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hyogen
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Jan 12, 2013 10:55 as a reply to  @ JakAHearts's post |  #45

Oh, i didn't think thats what you said. besides, those are pretty much my best shots, but it has been frustrating since i feel I've reached the ceiling and its not high enough for me when it comes to portraits. Im sure i could improve in general even with this rebel, but what more can i do than use pretty quality lenses in raw and iso100? I'll rent a FF soon I guess. I haven't really played around with flash at all yet...just fast primes so far. I'm trying to figure out what the best light modifier for my needs would be. So far, bounced flash and black foamie thing are just ok.


If the Overlord aka government/wife would just say the word, I'd in a heartbeat trade my stuff for a FF and less lenses.


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How is the <$2000 D600 so much better than 5DmIII ???
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