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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 20 Jan 2013 (Sunday) 12:19
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24-105 unhappy with the sharpness - please comment?

 
n1as
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Jan 20, 2013 15:44 |  #31

First, your shots are out of focus. The dancer shot is front-focused.

Second, I'm not convinced you're doing enough sharpening on your images. Are you shooting JPG or RAW?


- Keith
http://darwinphoto.zen​folio.com (external link)

  
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JohnB57
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Jan 20, 2013 15:49 |  #32

pawelx wrote in post #15512716 (external link)
haven't...

It might help to get the issue in perspective. This looks like focus/recompose to me.

I use the same lens, originally on my own 50D, with excellent results - the 50D is probably the most forgiving camera I have owned. Also, crop, given the same framing, has more latitude in DoF, so focus issues are less noticeable. Moving to full-frame, technique is everything. I find the 24-105mm is a little sensitive when contrast is low and I need to post process more, but it's worth the effort.

Try a few dozen shots using the lens on your 50D for comparison.




  
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Snydremark
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Jan 20, 2013 16:01 |  #33

As a 24-105 owner myself, I wouldn't happy with those results wide open. The very first thing I'd do is MFA that sucker; being sure to follow Canon's recommendation of doing it at 50x the focal length and using a real MFA target (such as the LensCal or TeamSpeed's chart), as shooting at an angled target is not reliable enough to get consistent focus.

SOME softening due to the high ISO, etc, may occur; but I would expect better results than those.


- Eric S.: My Birds/Wildlife (external link) (7D MkII/5D IV, Canon 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, Canon 24-105L f/4 IS, Canon 70-200L f/2.8 IS MkII, Canon 100-400L f/4.5-5.6 IS I/II)
"The easiest way to improve your photos is to adjust the loose nut between the shutter release and the ground."

  
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pawelx
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Jan 20, 2013 16:25 |  #34

n1as wrote in post #15512749 (external link)
First, your shots are out of focus. The dancer shot is front-focused.

Second, I'm not convinced you're doing enough sharpening on your images. Are you shooting JPG or RAW?

Shooting RAW; only applying the default DPP settings which are unsharp mask / strength =3. For these examples , I basically took SOOC Raw files and did File-> Convert and save, perhaps cropping first


Canon 6D, 24-105 f/4 , 50mm f/1.4, Sigma 150-500
Lenses previously owned: 70-200 f/2.8 IS, Sigma 35mm f/1.4, Tamron 18-270...

  
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kin2son
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Jan 20, 2013 16:29 |  #35
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Guys not sharp?? These were shot at high ISO. Granted the 6D is good at that. But they are not meant for pixel peeping....

Pixel peep shots @ ISO6400, comparing a ff kit lens to the 70-200II, focus recompose an action shot - not a smart idea...

The list could go on...


5D3 Gripped / 17-40L / Σ35 / 40 Pancake / Zeiss 50 MP / Σ85 / 100L Macro / 70-200 f2.8L II IS / 430 EX II / 580 EX II / Canon 2xIII TC / Kenko Ext. Tubes
EOS M / EF-M 18-55 / EF-M 22f2 / Ricoh GR aka Ultimate street camera :p
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pawelx
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Jan 20, 2013 16:34 |  #36

kin2son wrote in post #15512924 (external link)
Pixel peep shots @ ISO6400, comparing a ff kit lens to the 70-200II, focus recompose an action shot - not a smart idea...

The list could go on...

Agreed on the high ISO
70-200 is Mk I and the only other lens I own with overlapping focal range.
Action shots werent focus recompose. In one insance I did, by mistake, upload a photo here which was taken with automatic AF point selection. Generally though it was a single manually selected AF point falling on the dancers face


Canon 6D, 24-105 f/4 , 50mm f/1.4, Sigma 150-500
Lenses previously owned: 70-200 f/2.8 IS, Sigma 35mm f/1.4, Tamron 18-270...

  
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Hitthespot
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Jan 20, 2013 17:19 as a reply to  @ pawelx's post |  #37

My first 24-105 was not sharp with my 7D. I returned it and eventually got another one. This one take sharp pictures. The pictures you posted are soft, period. I would return the lens and get another one. If you can't do that return the camera and lens to Canon under warranty and have them do an adjustment.


Canon 7D, 24-105 f/4L IS, 70-200 f/4L IS, 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L IS, 430EX II,

  
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snapWindsor
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Jan 20, 2013 17:31 |  #38

Hitthespot wrote in post #15513089 (external link)
My first 24-105 was not sharp with my 7D. I returned it and eventually got another one. This one take sharp pictures. The pictures you posted are soft, period. I would return the lens and get another one. If you can't do that return the camera and lens to Canon under warranty and have them do an adjustment.

+1

I just bought a 24-70 I. It was the seller's 3rd one. The first 2 weren't sharp. This one is.




  
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pawelx
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Jan 21, 2013 04:11 |  #39

kin2son wrote in post #15512924 (external link)
Guys not sharp?? These were shot at high ISO. Granted the 6D is good at that. But they are not meant for pixel peeping....

Pixel peep shots @ ISO6400, comparing a ff kit lens to the 70-200II, focus recompose an action shot - not a smart idea...

The list could go on...

Also, this is in fact why I’m trying to get some opinions on-line, before going through the hassle of flagging up the issue with the seller, sending back the lens (or perhaps even lens AND body?) via courier, etc.. Perhaps there is nothing wrong with the gear as such, and only with the way I took these photos – which was precisely what I wrote in my very first post i.e. I’m not sure if it’s the gear’s fault, or mine.

To be clear, this shot isn't affected by either focus-recompose, or wide aperture. And it sounds like people still agree this isn’t sharp enough anywhere in the frame i.e. it’s not simply a front-focusing or other type of focus misalignment issue. Even given the high ISO setting, according to most of the replies here..

I’m trying to reach the seller atm, but it looks like the snow has managed to stop everyone there from coming in to the office today;)


Canon 6D, 24-105 f/4 , 50mm f/1.4, Sigma 150-500
Lenses previously owned: 70-200 f/2.8 IS, Sigma 35mm f/1.4, Tamron 18-270...

  
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kin2son
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Jan 21, 2013 04:32 |  #40
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pawelx wrote in post #15514655 (external link)
To be clear, this shot isn't affected by either focus-recompose, or wide aperture. And it sounds like people still agree this isn’t sharp enough anywhere in the frame i.e. it’s not simply a front-focusing or other type of focus misalignment issue. Even given the high ISO setting, according to most of the replies here..

Not sharp enough? Are you serious?

It looks perfectly fine, in fact it has great details for a shot @ ISO6400.

Trust me, a lot of people reply here without even looking at your samples, or they are just comparing your shots with theirs at a much lower ISO and under much better shooting condition. ;)


5D3 Gripped / 17-40L / Σ35 / 40 Pancake / Zeiss 50 MP / Σ85 / 100L Macro / 70-200 f2.8L II IS / 430 EX II / 580 EX II / Canon 2xIII TC / Kenko Ext. Tubes
EOS M / EF-M 18-55 / EF-M 22f2 / Ricoh GR aka Ultimate street camera :p
Flickr (external link) | My Images on Getty®‎ (external link)

  
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pawelx
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Jan 21, 2013 04:50 |  #41

kin2son wrote in post #15514678 (external link)
Not sharp enough? Are you serious?

It looks perfectly fine, in fact it has great details for a shot @ ISO6400.

Trust me, a lot of people reply here without even looking at your samples, or they are just comparing your shots with theirs at a much lower ISO and under much better shooting condition. ;)

interesting. thanks. Yes perhaps for ISO 6400 this IS sharp enough, although not according to some other posters here. But then again, even the staged shots didn't look very sharp, to my eye at least - and these were taken with a tripod, shutter time release, mirror lock-up and low ISO.


Canon 6D, 24-105 f/4 , 50mm f/1.4, Sigma 150-500
Lenses previously owned: 70-200 f/2.8 IS, Sigma 35mm f/1.4, Tamron 18-270...

  
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pawelx
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Jan 21, 2013 04:54 |  #42

kin2son wrote in post #15514678 (external link)
Not sharp enough? Are you serious?

It looks perfectly fine, in fact it has great details for a shot @ ISO6400.

Trust me, a lot of people reply here without even looking at your samples, or they are just comparing your shots with theirs at a much lower ISO and under much better shooting condition. ;)

and in-line with another observation I've made, these people here (external link) have also come across the issue whereby in Av mode, the camera (6D) chooses to use a low ISO and slow shutter speed, rather than bumping up the ISO (to what would still be a perfectly acceptable level), resulting in camera shake. I've checked some of the slightly blurred shots from the trip, and many seem to suffer from the same issue - the camera selecting, say, ISO 100 and 1/50sec (using the lens @105mm), rather than say ISO 400 and 1/200sec.
Then again, I would expect the IS to take care of that.. Weird.

This is why I have posted here asking people for opinion - there could be so many issues affecting the sharpness of real-life shots: high ISO; motion blur; camera shake; incorrect AF point used, etc.. I didn't want to judge the lens just by how sharp the staged shots looked, but instead preferred to use real-life examples.


Canon 6D, 24-105 f/4 , 50mm f/1.4, Sigma 150-500
Lenses previously owned: 70-200 f/2.8 IS, Sigma 35mm f/1.4, Tamron 18-270...

  
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grasshopper315
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Jan 21, 2013 06:38 |  #43

Regarding your comment on ISO and shutter speed selection- I see you shot in Av with auto ISO. My preference in Av is to manually select ISO according to the situation. I don't like my camera calculating the best shutter speed and ISO for me. I rarely use auto ISO, but on occasion I find it useful when shooting Tv in low light without flash.




  
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kin2son
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Jan 21, 2013 06:51 |  #44
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grasshopper315 wrote in post #15514847 (external link)
I don't like my camera calculating the best shutter speed and ISO for me. I rarely use auto ISO, but on occasion I find it useful when shooting Tv in low light without flash.

That's normal behavior with AV mode.

Under low light situation, camera will always pick the lowest possible shutter speed (based on the 1/focal length rule) and ISO.

Picking your own ISO in AV has its downside too. If you have selected an ISO that is too low, shutter speed will suffer which means motion blur.

If your pick is too high, shutter speed is also going to be high, but you will get extra noise/grains.

pawelx wrote in post #15514710 (external link)
and many seem to suffer from the same issue - the camera selecting, say, ISO 100 and 1/50sec (using the lens @105mm), rather than say ISO 400 and 1/200sec.

Um you sure you were using auto ISO? Or maybe you have selected ISO100 yourself?

Either way, any camera in AV mode and auto ISO won't pick ISO400 and 1/200sec if you are @ 105mm....as the camera will always try to achieve lowest ISO possible, provided the minimum shutter speed is met. Therefore if you want 1/200sec @ 105mm, you either specify ISO400 yourself, or you use TV mode.

Am i making sense? It's late here in Sydney :p


5D3 Gripped / 17-40L / Σ35 / 40 Pancake / Zeiss 50 MP / Σ85 / 100L Macro / 70-200 f2.8L II IS / 430 EX II / 580 EX II / Canon 2xIII TC / Kenko Ext. Tubes
EOS M / EF-M 18-55 / EF-M 22f2 / Ricoh GR aka Ultimate street camera :p
Flickr (external link) | My Images on Getty®‎ (external link)

  
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pawelx
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Jan 21, 2013 07:27 |  #45

kin2son wrote in post #15514873 (external link)
Um you sure you were using auto ISO? Or maybe you have selected ISO100 yourself?

Either way, any camera in AV mode and auto ISO won't pick ISO400 and 1/200sec if you are @ 105mm....as the camera will always try to achieve lowest ISO possible, provided the minimum shutter speed is met. Therefore if you want 1/200sec @ 105mm, you either specify ISO400 yourself, or you use TV mode.

Am i making sense? It's late here in Sydney :p

Yes you’re making perfect sense..

Pretty sure I was using Auto ISO. I got very excited about my new camera and how well it performed at ISO 1600 and 3200 when I bought it… And so, while I would always select ISO manually on 50D, I have now taken to using Auto ISO pretty much all the time on the 6D, except for really low light situations.

So in Av mode and using Auto ISO, I agree that the camera would select the “lowest acceptable” shutter speed to minimize the ISO setting being used; what I’m saying though is that in my case, the camera doesn’t seem to be applying the 1/focal length rule very well: I’ve seen it select 1/60sec + ISO 200 when using 105mm focal length.

But TBH this is a different issue from what I posted in this thread about.. The shots I’ve posted aren’t really affected by camera shake, shutter speeds were high (1/200 or 1/250sec)..


Canon 6D, 24-105 f/4 , 50mm f/1.4, Sigma 150-500
Lenses previously owned: 70-200 f/2.8 IS, Sigma 35mm f/1.4, Tamron 18-270...

  
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24-105 unhappy with the sharpness - please comment?
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