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Thread started 19 Jan 2013 (Saturday) 17:33
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How to reject a job.

 
awad
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Jan 20, 2013 01:33 |  #31

I dont feel like derailing this thread anymore. good luck OP!


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cdifoto
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Jan 20, 2013 01:36 |  #32

awad wrote in post #15510630 (external link)
It doesn't matter if someone can afford you or not, you should treat all potential clients the same.

Where do you even assume that I don't? Where did I say that I don't? I'm not talking about potential clients or actual clients being turned down. I'm talking about flaky people who don't pay (or show up when they say they will, for that matter) being turned down.

If you set up two appointments with me and don't show up to either of them, I'm going to write you off as a non-starter and consider the day you were interested in still open. And no, I will not take the time out to try a third meeting.


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cdifoto
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Jan 20, 2013 01:37 |  #33

awad wrote in post #15510648 (external link)
Again, without knowing what the OP has as far as deposits and contracts go, it's all in the air anyways.

My issue was with you saying that the OP should just say "I don't want to do it anymore." Couldn't possibly make that any clearer.

Quote me. I know I said it's better to say you no longer wish to do it. That's a different thing than a terse "I don't want to do it anymore." It's a subtle difference, and you don't have to use those exact words, but it's definitely different. I mean, you think she'll go off on you and kill your business if you say you no longer want to do it, but what do you think she'll do if you say you're all booked up that day and she spots you drinking in a bar or something that's the exact opposite of booked?

So yeah, be honest. Tell her her lack of reliability is souring it for you as well. I mean, it's not like she's the only human with interests to protect in this transaction. Besides, if one person can kill your business, you're not really doing anything right.


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abbypanda
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Jan 20, 2013 02:56 |  #34

Shamir wrote in post #15509493 (external link)
Hi guys,

I told her my price was US$1,500 and that included an album and several other things. She wanted a discount, fine, gave her a good discount...

Once you give a mouse a cookie......

Keep to your standards from the start, and it will be far far less headache.




  
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SMP_Homer
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Jan 20, 2013 08:13 |  #35

As Dr House has said, very frequently: everyone lies


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1000WordsPhotography
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Jan 20, 2013 11:09 |  #36

My policy has been a signed contract and a nonrefundable deposit is required to hold the time. Without that there is no job, there is just a conversation. So as far as I'm concerned there is no job to cancel.

My approach would be to call her and let her know that if she doesn't pay her fee on Monday (yes tomorrow) by 5pm that you will be unable to book the job. Also let her know that a signed contract will be required and write something up, as dodgy as she has been it would be better to get everything in writing.

I don't think a white lie is a horrible thing to save embarrassment, I mean if a customer wants to pose the way a 110 lb girl might and she's 220 lbs you aren't exactly going to say "This is probably a bad idea tubby" you are gently going to lead her in the right direction. However in this instance you don't have to, you have the runway to give her a final opportunity and then walk away.

I do think it would be a bad thing to walk away without giving her a final opportunity because you are the business owner and no matter how horribly they behave people believe the customer is always right. You want to be perceived as having been more than reasonable in trying to accommodate her.

When I don't take a shoot my reason is simple "I'm not comfortable doing this assignment. Its obvious that this is important to you and I'm just not sure I can capture this moment for you. I'd love to be considered in the future and I have a couple of photographers that I'm sure will love to serve your need that I can connect you too." I decline to give more information but the two or three times I've used it people tend to think its me saying I'm not up to snuff but both times I've gone down this road it was due to weddings which for the moment I don't shoot because brides are crazy.


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cdifoto
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Jan 20, 2013 13:24 |  #37

Addiction2k wrote in post #15511764 (external link)
My policy has been a signed contract and a nonrefundable deposit is required to hold the time. Without that there is no job, there is just a conversation. So as far as I'm concerned there is no job to cancel.

My approach would be to call her and let her know that if she doesn't pay her fee on Monday (yes tomorrow) by 5pm that you will be unable to book the job. Also let her know that a signed contract will be required and write something up, as dodgy as she has been it would be better to get everything in writing.

I don't think a white lie is a horrible thing to save embarrassment, I mean if a customer wants to pose the way a 110 lb girl might and she's 220 lbs you aren't exactly going to say "This is probably a bad idea tubby" you are gently going to lead her in the right direction. However in this instance you don't have to, you have the runway to give her a final opportunity and then walk away.

I do think it would be a bad thing to walk away without giving her a final opportunity because you are the business owner and no matter how horribly they behave people believe the customer is always right. You want to be perceived as having been more than reasonable in trying to accommodate her.

When I don't take a shoot my reason is simple "I'm not comfortable doing this assignment. Its obvious that this is important to you and I'm just not sure I can capture this moment for you. I'd love to be considered in the future and I have a couple of photographers that I'm sure will love to serve your need that I can connect you too." I decline to give more information but the two or three times I've used it people tend to think its me saying I'm not up to snuff but both times I've gone down this road it was due to weddings which for the moment I don't shoot because brides are crazy.

I agree on the contract and deposit. Until that happens it's just talk. OP would not actually be backing out of a gig at this point. Declining to enter into a contract happens all the time on both sides.

I'm not sure I'd give even one last "ultimatum" chance. I mean, if you have to go that far is the job really worth it? How many meetings did they reneg on? Sounds to me like it was at least two. Will they really show up for their own session or will they try to reschedule that a bunch of times too, killing OP's ability to schedule other work? Will they make final payment on time? You can't think in terms of just getting the deposit and a contract. You have to consider what it'll take to actually fulfill it.

I don't buy into the "customer is always right" mantra. I just don't. People abuse that and I refuse to be abused. If the request is reasonable, I will always oblige. I also go way above and beyond quite often. But I don't let anyone play the CIAR card anymore because when I did, I always regretted it. I see others who still do and they're pulling their hair out with that very customer who tried it on me.

Will every transaction be perfect? Dream on. But you shouldn't be chasing people who keep no-showing on you. IMHO.


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tickerguy
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Jan 20, 2013 15:10 |  #38

Offer, acceptance, consideration.

It sounds like the OP doesn't have any of them. Without all three there is no contract and thus no obligation. Everything else is about "face", not what's right.

IMHO don't lie. Turn it down; the simplest way is to explain that you just don't believe you'd be a good fit for the project in your professional opinion. You need say nothing more and I wouldn't say anything more.

I turn down work (in a different field) all the time and it happens at various stages in the negotiation for various reasons. One of the ways to get me to walk fast is to have a rough outline of terms and costs where we have both bargained and then come back for another bite on the price. Once you demonstrate that you'll do that I expect trouble getting paid from that point onward and the price I'm willing to work for goes up, and not a little either.


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Jan 20, 2013 15:25 |  #39

tickerguy wrote in post #15512621 (external link)
Offer, acceptance, consideration.

It sounds like the OP doesn't have any of them. Without all three there is no contract and thus no obligation. Everything else is about "face", not what's right.

IMHO don't lie. Turn it down; the simplest way is to explain that you just don't believe you'd be a good fit for the project in your professional opinion. You need say nothing more and I wouldn't say anything more.

I turn down work (in a different field) all the time and it happens at various stages in the negotiation for various reasons. One of the ways to get me to walk fast is to have a rough outline of terms and costs where we have both bargained and then come back for another bite on the price. Once you demonstrate that you'll do that I expect trouble getting paid from that point onward and the price I'm willing to work for goes up, and not a little either.

Thank goodness someone else gets it. :)


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newporthomie
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Jan 20, 2013 15:28 |  #40

I wonder where u guys lost OP?




  
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Shamir
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Jan 20, 2013 16:02 |  #41

Hi guys, she signed my contract on October 2012. Still, she have not placed any deposit. Haven't heard from her this weekend.. Let's see if she calls tomorrow!


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Shamir
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Jan 20, 2013 16:05 |  #42

aisha13 wrote in post #15509763 (external link)
The thing is, you should have never left the time of payment up to your client. You need to be the one structuring the conversation about payment and it should never be "can I pay you on x, y, or z" but that "in order to confirm this event payment is required at blank time. Failure to pay at this time releases me, the photographer of having to shoot the wedding."

My contract states that I require a 50% deposit to book and the other 50% is due one week before the event... But will definitely take this into consideration to add it to my current contract.


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1000WordsPhotography
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Jan 20, 2013 16:11 |  #43

Shamir,

My thinking has always been there are rules you can't break in business. A contract without a deposit is worthless. As soon as you start to back away from your standard method of operation you open the door to more and more deviation from it. I understand you want to be human and you want to work with people but it is hard on your business to do so especially when what you provide is a luxury item.

In the future I wouldn't allow anyone to sign a contract unless they can provide payment when the contract is signed (and I only accept credit cards, PP and cash; no money orders and no checks). Once I have a signed contract and a deposit I have a booking, until that point I have nothing.


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cdifoto
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Jan 20, 2013 16:11 |  #44

Shamir wrote in post #15512820 (external link)
Hi guys, she signed my contract on October 2012. Still, she have not placed any deposit. Haven't heard from her this weekend.. Let's see if she calls tomorrow!

Payment and contract should be simultaneous...

Did you both sign or just her? If you didn't sign then you're still not obligated. But yeah you're doing this whole thing wrong.


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Shamir
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Jan 20, 2013 16:17 |  #45

abbypanda wrote in post #15510760 (external link)
Once you give a mouse a cookie......

Keep to your standards from the start, and it will be far far less headache.

bw!


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