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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 21 Jan 2013 (Monday) 20:31
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!!HELP ADVICE NEEDED!! 5D MK ii? 6D? 7D?

 
Lewis90ToNow
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Jan 21, 2013 20:31 |  #1

i was wondering if any of you could recommend cameras and accessories for me. i want to buy a camera for filming live music and also boxing photography so i want it for stills and movies. i don't have much experience but i am happy to put in the time in to learn the camera. i was looking at the Canon 7D because it has a 8fps picture rate which i think sounds pretty good for boxing photography because you obviously need quite a quick frame rate for sport especially boxing because alot can happen in such a little space of time. but the Canon 6D and 5D mark ii also court my eye because i heard that the 7D isn't very good at recording sound especially with an external mic, i know that i will need an external mic for recording music i am thinking of getting the Sennheiser MKE 400 but would that make the 7D good enough? because i have heard that you can't monitor sound on the 7D and some people seem to say there is a hiss when you use a external mic that you can't get rid of. although the 5D and 6D are more expensive, have slower fps and i don't want to spend that amount of money if i don't have to i really want to buy something that will do what i want it to do. so if the fps is good enough for them i think 1 of those might be better. i was wondering if you could tell me which camera you think would be best for what i want to do with it. thanks in advance for any opinions/advice that you can offer me




  
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scotiez
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Jan 21, 2013 20:50 |  #2

Well I have he EOS 5D Mark II. I do not shoot sports but i have shot a couple HS basketball games and it was plenty fast enough for me. Also the sound and video recording on the 5D Is excellant. Some popular TV shows use the Canon EOS 5D Mark II as one of the cameras. The entire season finale for House was done with a 5D Mark II, also parts of Iron Man II, There is another but i can't remember the name right now. I am sure the 6D and 7D are pretty good cameras too, When the time comes for your purchase it will be up to you.


Canon EOS 5D Mark II, EOS 60D, EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM, EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, EF 50mm f/1.8 II, EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS, 430EX II, Yongnuo YN-560 II, Yongnuo RF-603 C3 2.4GHz Wireless Flash Trigger
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mickeyb105
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Jan 21, 2013 21:26 |  #3

Act of Valor was shot with 5D ii's, no?


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scotiez
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Jan 21, 2013 21:35 |  #4

The entire last episode of House was shot with a 5D II, parts of Iron man II, Captain America, Black Swan, 24 and their are others too.


Canon EOS 5D Mark II, EOS 60D, EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM, EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, EF 50mm f/1.8 II, EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS, 430EX II, Yongnuo YN-560 II, Yongnuo RF-603 C3 2.4GHz Wireless Flash Trigger
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Motor ­ On
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Jan 21, 2013 21:51 |  #5

If you're going to get serious about doing video, then do some research and find an audio recording method completely independent of the camera, 5D2,6D and 7D all lack headphone jacks which means you don't know results until you play it back (this does show up on the 5D3). There are many sound recording options with balanced inputs and headphone monitoring jacks targeted to the market of run and gun DSLR videographers. B&H's youtube channel goes into some depth on features of various models they carry. If you're doing a lot of live music I'd think a recorder accepting an XLR input would be a minimum so that you can have a balanced out when a feed is available from the sound board, and have a selection of microphones to get the best you can for venues without that option.

The vast majority of Act of Valor was shot with 5D2s, apparently for a few scenes there was a supermegafancyexenspiv​e specialty camera involved, if you look closely when watching you can catch the rolling shutter.

I own a 7D, frames per second was a factor in my decision, AF was much more a factor. If you're going to be shooting a lot of sports, and a lot of the same sport, learn to shoot that sport in the single shot drive mode, even at the 1DX 14fps if you don't know how to align one of those up with the peak action, you're not going to get the shot, and there are time gaps in the middle. It's an acquired skill that takes practice but the results are worth it. Also the 7Ds AF is much more complex, it's going to take some practice and time to learn and be a bit more challenging to get into that the other cameras with 9 and 11 AF points, but there is also reward to be had for speed and accuracy after you learn how to dial it in.

Good AF in sports is going to come into play, the lighting for boxing is going to matter (are you shooting in Vegas where the lighting is awesome, or in a gym with some faint mercury vapor lights and maybe a few small windows) What you're using for lenses is going to matter quite a bit too. The EF-S lenses won't fit on the 5d2 and 6D, and the focal lengths offer different fields of view in comparison to the APS-C camera bodies. Either way, the lower f or t numbers the more light the lenses are going to let in and under the same lighting the fast shutter speeds you'll achieve to freeze the action.

A Rebel and fast glass may win out vs a 7D and slow glass on same budget. And the T4i (650D) has the same sensor as the 7D, but some more video minded features. The 5d2 and 6D should do a little better on the noise front in low light.


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ebiggs
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Jan 22, 2013 04:57 |  #6

If video is a main feature for you than the 7D is your only choice of the cameras you have listed. Video is way better on it than the 5D Mk II. As for sound about even I guess. You need external recording options for either.
Plus you get the free focal length bonus.


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Yogi ­ Bear
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Jan 22, 2013 17:19 as a reply to  @ ebiggs's post |  #7

I would say to get a 7D with a separate audio recorder, as "Motor On" recommended.


Canon EOS 7D | EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM | EF-S 55-250mm f/4.0-5.6 IS |
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kf095
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Jan 22, 2013 20:08 as a reply to  @ Yogi Bear's post |  #8

Video, visually, is better on full frame. Plus, it has advantage in more old good MF glass selection. Or if you want to use wide L prime.
Check this forum:
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oklaiss
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Jan 22, 2013 20:13 |  #9

For me frame rate for sports doesn't really matter, I like to time my shots and I get pretty good results that way rather than just "spray and pray" like you can do with the 7d's 8fps (you end up with way too many bad shots). Also all these cameras can record perfectly good audio with an external mic. Having said that, I own a 5dii and wouldn't want it any other way


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oklaiss
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Jan 22, 2013 20:14 |  #10

ebiggs wrote in post #15518929 (external link)
If video is a main feature for you than the 7D is your only choice of the cameras you have listed. Video is way better on it than the 5D Mk II. As for sound about even I guess. You need external recording options for either.
Plus you get the free focal length bonus.

What are you talking about. Video features on the 5dii and the 7d, both with magic lantern (which is a must for video shooters), is the same. However the 5d's sensor is much better for low light videography


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ebiggs
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Jan 23, 2013 07:50 as a reply to  @ oklaiss's post |  #11

Sorry, I disagree. The 7D's is better. I have both cameras right here and I use both.
Maybe you can make them look the same with post but...............


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Yogi ­ Bear
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Jan 23, 2013 09:37 |  #12

ebiggs wrote in post #15523633 (external link)
Sorry, I disagree. The 7D's is better. I have both cameras right here and I use both.
Maybe you can make them look the same with post but...............

Can you please tell us what makes the 7D's video better?


Canon EOS 7D | EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM | EF-S 55-250mm f/4.0-5.6 IS |
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ebiggs
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Jan 23, 2013 11:47 as a reply to  @ Yogi Bear's post |  #13

The 5D2 has a larger sensor (FF vs APS-C), so it offers a shallower DOF with the same view comparable F stops. The out of focus areas in the 5D is more out of focus than it is with the 7D.
Second it depends on what you are shooting. If it is wildlife, than again the 7D has the advantage. If you are on a dark nightclub than I will give the 5D to nod.
Not to mention better weather sealing and AF. But it don't matter to me use what you want, too!


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Yogi ­ Bear
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Jan 23, 2013 12:09 as a reply to  @ ebiggs's post |  #14

Thank you, ebiggs. I appreciate you sharing your experience.


Canon EOS 7D | EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM | EF-S 55-250mm f/4.0-5.6 IS |
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amfoto1
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Jan 23, 2013 12:42 |  #15

I use both 7D and 5DII (and still have 50D backup cameras). Haven't used 6D yet, so don't have any personal experience with it and can only parrot what other people think about it.

7D is a far better action/sports camera. It's AF is much faster and more responsive, better able to track moving subjects in AI Servo. You will have more "keeper" sports shots with it than with the 5DII. Just based upon early reviews, I'd expect the 6D to be a little better than 5DII, but not up to 7D AF sports/action standards.

Personally I don't worry too much about frame rate differences, because I try not to "spray and pray" any more than necessary, though I do occasionally use bursts of shots at a higher frame rate in certain circumstances.

7D has 19 AF points, all of which are dual cross type. It also has a discrete chip driving AF, much like the 1D series cameras (along with dual image processors to support higher frame rate shooting).

The 5DII pushes everything through a single processor, and it's image files are larger than 7Ds. It has 9 AF points visible in the viewfinder, with only the center one the "better" dual axis type. 5DII (like 5D classic) also has 6 hidden Assist Points that can be optionally enabled, clustered right around the middle one. It's sort of like "Expansion Points" but only applies to the center point, only two of the Assist Points are the dual axis type, and they only work in AI Servo mode.

Depth of field actually isn't any different, one size sensor to the next. If you use the same aperture and focal length, standing the same distance from your subject, DOF will be exactly the same. What is different, with a full frame camera in order to frame a subject the same way you did with a crop camera, you will either need to move closer or use a longer focal length, either of which will cause shallower depth of field.

Part of the partial myth about shallower DOF is probably due to differences in the viewfinders. The somewhat larger finder of a full frame camera more clearly displays DOF. The smaller finders of crop cameras often don't show DOF as well, you can end up with shallower DOF in your images than you expected, based upon what you were seeing through the finder when you took the shot. The 7D actually has one of the largest and best viewfinders of any crop camera, so is a little better than most. Due to use of an active matrix/transmissive LCD focus screen, the 7D's viewfinder might not be quite as bright, too.

When it comes to high ISO and noise handling, I feel 5DII is usable about one stop ISO higher than the 7D. I also feel the 5DII's AF system is capable of achieving focus in slightly lower light than the 7D (although Canon rates both of them the same, to -0.5 EV).

I do not have 6D, so can't really compare directly. High ISO still shots it appears RAW are roughly the same as 5DII, or maybe less than a stop better. But it appears be able to shoot one or two stops higher when doing in-camera JPEGs. In other words, improved high ISO performance is done through software, not hardware. Canon rates the 6D's AF system to -2EV, same as 5DIII and one and half stops lower than the 7D or 5DII. However, check user reviews to see if this is accurate or not. Without any personal hands-on experience, I can't really say. Reviewers seem to rate the overall 11 point AF system of the 6D a little better than the 5DII, but not as good as 7D or 5III. Of the 11 points in the 6D, only the center point is dual axis. And, like 5D/5DII, it pushes everything through a single processor, though it is the latest and greatest Digic 5 that's supposed to be a significant upgrade over the Digic 4s in 5D/5DII/7D.

i don't shoot video with any of my DSLRs, so really can't comment on that.


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!!HELP ADVICE NEEDED!! 5D MK ii? 6D? 7D?
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