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Thread started 26 Jan 2013 (Saturday) 17:21
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Fast primes: used to love them,now prefer flash for less noise/sharper/catchlight pic

 
mystik610
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Jan 27, 2013 20:27 |  #16

JeffreyG wrote in post #15537279 (external link)
I think it's kind of a typical journey, at least for people that can afford it.

1) Get dSLR, kit lens.
2) Frustrated with onboard flash, lousy indoor pictures.
3) Get a fast prime. Amazed.
4) The lost years - all shallow DOF all the time. Talk about 'bokeh' a lot.
5) Sell all zooms. Talk about being an 'all primes' shooter like this is the same as 'have huge manhood'.
6) Grandma says "Nice picture, shame all of Suzie isn't in focus." Shake head at crazy old lady. Later realize old lady has a good point.
7) Realize that not all available light is pretty light. Get Speedlight. Amazed by bouncing light.
8) Read strobist blog. Sell all fast primes. Travel everywhere with two lightstands and remotes.
9) Get sick of lugging lighting gear everywhere. Rethink everything.
10) Realize that good available light is fine, and the ability to make good light is important too. Acquire balanced kit of zooms and primes that match interests. Shoot with available light sometimes, shoot with flash sometimes.

I think I'm getting to 10 finally. Have gone through each and every stage except maybe the 8th stage lol. Never got TOO crazy with external lighting, but I do have a radio trigger, light stand, softbox, and umbrella (looking at getting a portral strobe soon). At one point, I went backwards and relapsed into the "lost years" with my primes, back have since come back to the light lol.

I'm starting to learn the importance of balancing the interplay of natural/ambient light, and artificial light (camera exposes the environment, flash exposes your subject), and how to manipulate the exposure triangle + artificial light to 'paint' a portrait. In this context, primes, although limited by their focal length, offer much more flexibility than zooms in terms of manipulating how light hits your sensor, and controlling DOF.

I use my zooms when I absolutely need the flexibility, but still see more value in primes (with my speedlight) when shooting portraits in controlled settings.


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scs
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Jan 27, 2013 20:45 |  #17

JeffreyG wrote in post #15537279 (external link)
I think it's kind of a typical journey, at least for people that can afford it.

1) Get dSLR, kit lens.
2) Frustrated with onboard flash, lousy indoor pictures.
3) Get a fast prime. Amazed.
4) The lost years - all shallow DOF all the time. Talk about 'bokeh' a lot.
5) Sell all zooms. Talk about being an 'all primes' shooter like this is the same as 'have huge manhood'.
6) Grandma says "Nice picture, shame all of Suzie isn't in focus." Shake head at crazy old lady. Later realize old lady has a good point.
7) Realize that not all available light is pretty light. Get Speedlight. Amazed by bouncing light.
8) Read strobist blog. Sell all fast primes. Travel everywhere with two lightstands and remotes.
9) Get sick of lugging lighting gear everywhere. Rethink everything.
10) Realize that good available light is fine, and the ability to make good light is important too. Acquire balanced kit of zooms and primes that match interests. Shoot with available light sometimes, shoot with flash sometimes.

wow, this is so true, at least for me lol. bw!




  
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Earwax69
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Jan 27, 2013 20:56 |  #18

Depend what you shoot of course... models vs street.

666) And years after, you realise that Suzie was cursed and is always out of focus...


Canon 6D | S35mm f1.4 | 135mm f2 The rest: T3i, 20D, 15mm f2.8, 15-85mm, 24mm f2.8, 50mm f1.8, 85mm f1.8, 90mm f2.8 macro, 55-250mm.
So long and thanks for all the fish

  
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deuce818
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Jan 27, 2013 21:02 |  #19

lol im at step 9


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Stone ­ 13
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Jan 27, 2013 21:15 |  #20

I'm right in the middle of step 8 except for the lightstands, but I carry 2 speedlites and wireless triggers everywhere I go. :D


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Don_T70
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Jan 27, 2013 21:45 |  #21

That is funny. I am kind of new to this and about to enter step one.


Canon 6D. 24-105mm - 40mm Pancake - 20-35mm 2.8- 85mm 1.8 - 100-400L - Nifty 50

  
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joeblack2022
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Jan 27, 2013 21:50 |  #22

JeffreyG wrote in post #15537279 (external link)
I think it's kind of a typical journey, at least for people that can afford it.

1) Get dSLR, kit lens.
2) Frustrated with onboard flash, lousy indoor pictures.
3) Get a fast prime. Amazed.
4) The lost years - all shallow DOF all the time. Talk about 'bokeh' a lot.
5) Sell all zooms. Talk about being an 'all primes' shooter like this is the same as 'have huge manhood'.
6) Grandma says "Nice picture, shame all of Suzie isn't in focus." Shake head at crazy old lady. Later realize old lady has a good point.
7) Realize that not all available light is pretty light. Get Speedlight. Amazed by bouncing light.
8) Read strobist blog. Sell all fast primes. Travel everywhere with two lightstands and remotes.
9) Get sick of lugging lighting gear everywhere. Rethink everything.
10) Realize that good available light is fine, and the ability to make good light is important too. Acquire balanced kit of zooms and primes that match interests. Shoot with available light sometimes, shoot with flash sometimes.

This post doesn't deserve to become a sticky. It needs to be MANDATORY READING when signing up to POTN. :D


Joel

  
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archer1960
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Jan 28, 2013 07:18 |  #23

Alex_Venom wrote in post #15537294 (external link)
PERFECT!
I think I'm on step 6 :p

Yeah, I'm at 7, just beginning to appreciate bounced flash and flash modifiers. However, I never really went through step 4; shallow DOF never held a lot of appeal for me except in certain special (and typically rare for me) cases.


Gripped 7D, gripped, full-spectrum modfied T1i (500D), SX50HS, A2E film body, Tamzooka (150-600), Tamron 90mm/2.8 VC (ver 2), Tamron 18-270 VC, Canon FD 100 f/4.0 macro, Canon 24-105 f/4L,Canon EF 200 f/2.8LII, Canon 85 f/1.8, Tamron Adaptall 2 90mmf/2.5 Macro, Tokina 11-16, Canon EX-430 flash, Vivitar DF-383 flash, Astro-Tech AT6RC and Celestron NexStar 102 GT telescopes, various other semi-crappy manual lenses and stuff.

  
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archer1960
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Jan 28, 2013 07:22 |  #24

Hogloff wrote in post #15537843 (external link)
In fact, fast primes give you more options. You can always use a fast prime stopped down with a flash...but you can NEVER use a slow lens to get that nice bokeh or that special available low light photo.

It's all about managing light whether that light is available only or supplemented with a flash or other form. Putting down fast primes so you have options available that you don't with slow lens seems a little condescending to me.

He wasn't putting them down, just humorously pointing out that fast primes aren't the be-all and end-all that *some* people seem to think they are.


Gripped 7D, gripped, full-spectrum modfied T1i (500D), SX50HS, A2E film body, Tamzooka (150-600), Tamron 90mm/2.8 VC (ver 2), Tamron 18-270 VC, Canon FD 100 f/4.0 macro, Canon 24-105 f/4L,Canon EF 200 f/2.8LII, Canon 85 f/1.8, Tamron Adaptall 2 90mmf/2.5 Macro, Tokina 11-16, Canon EX-430 flash, Vivitar DF-383 flash, Astro-Tech AT6RC and Celestron NexStar 102 GT telescopes, various other semi-crappy manual lenses and stuff.

  
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Jan 28, 2013 07:26 |  #25

JeffreyG wrote in post #15537279 (external link)
I think it's kind of a typical journey, at least for people that can afford it.

1) Get dSLR, kit lens.
2) Frustrated with onboard flash, lousy indoor pictures.
3) Get a fast prime. Amazed.
4) The lost years - all shallow DOF all the time. Talk about 'bokeh' a lot.
5) Sell all zooms. Talk about being an 'all primes' shooter like this is the same as 'have huge manhood'.
6) Grandma says "Nice picture, shame all of Suzie isn't in focus." Shake head at crazy old lady. Later realize old lady has a good point.
7) Realize that not all available light is pretty light. Get Speedlight. Amazed by bouncing light.
8) Read strobist blog. Sell all fast primes. Travel everywhere with two lightstands and remotes.
9) Get sick of lugging lighting gear everywhere. Rethink everything.
10) Realize that good available light is fine, and the ability to make good light is important too. Acquire balanced kit of zooms and primes that match interests. Shoot with available light sometimes, shoot with flash sometimes.

Well stated Jeffrey. Those of us who shot medium format film didn't have a whole lot of choice with those old low ASA choices, nor did we have zooms. Now we have the best of all worlds ;). - Stu


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Anthon
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Jan 28, 2013 07:38 |  #26

Most of the time, low light is also just poor light. So no matter how fast your lens if, you will still end up with an ugly picture.

And sometimes you just can't use flash - so a faster lens will be better.

I think it's important to understand the limitations of the gear, and how it's supposed to be used. There is no winner in Zoom vs Prime war - both have their uses. Zooms do get more usefull, as the ISO performance improves.

Lighting is literally everything in photography: if it's bad, then your picture is going to be bad, because light is what you see - so using a flash makes sense. In fact, it is one of the most important tools imo.
Most people hate flashes, because they never used a good one (doesn't have to be expensive) or never used it properly.

On thing is certain - if you can have only 1 lens, than it has to be a general zoom (form wide to short tele).
I really regrett that I forgot about my 18-55 kit lens, when I've purchased my first 50mm 1.4 + flash. Because a flash would have improved its performance dramatically. (not 24-70 2.8 I vs II 'dramatically' - iso 100 vs iso 6400 'dramatically'!)


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Chinsing
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Jan 28, 2013 07:56 |  #27

JeffreyG wrote in post #15537279 (external link)
I think it's kind of a typical journey, at least for people that can afford it.

1) Get dSLR, kit lens.
2) Frustrated with onboard flash, lousy indoor pictures.
3) Get a fast prime. Amazed.
4) The lost years - all shallow DOF all the time. Talk about 'bokeh' a lot.
5) Sell all zooms. Talk about being an 'all primes' shooter like this is the same as 'have huge manhood'.
6) Grandma says "Nice picture, shame all of Suzie isn't in focus." Shake head at crazy old lady. Later realize old lady has a good point.
7) Realize that not all available light is pretty light. Get Speedlight. Amazed by bouncing light.
8) Read strobist blog. Sell all fast primes. Travel everywhere with two lightstands and remotes.
9) Get sick of lugging lighting gear everywhere. Rethink everything.
10) Realize that good available light is fine, and the ability to make good light is important too. Acquire balanced kit of zooms and primes that match interests. Shoot with available light sometimes, shoot with flash sometimes.

Here, here Jeff.

In the end, it's like the journey of life.

Paraphrasing very loosely from the good book.

'Grant me the lens to bokeh,
the lighting to fill/highlight,
and the WISDOM to know when/how to do what's appropriate' - :wink:




  
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BLUEONION
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Jan 28, 2013 13:17 |  #28

Hi my name is BLUEONION and I completed step 10 of this course. :)


Canon 6D: Rokinon 14 2.8 I Sigma 50 1.4 I Rokinon 85 1.4 I Canon 135 2.0 I Tamron 70-200 2.8
WTB: Skills :)

  
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murkeywaters
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Jan 28, 2013 16:09 as a reply to  @ post 15541393 |  #29

Some good quotes here, for me it all depends on what you like to shoot, I do weddings so my day consists of both, mostly natural light all day and bounce flash for speeches, first dance etc.

I walked your road a few years ago and for me nothing can compare to a atmospheric shot taken with a prime, its just timeless...fill/bounce flash I found to be very characterless and boring after a while.

Quite often I will take another photographer with me on a wedding and during the pre bridal he will often use bounce flash where as I will bump up the ISO and open up the aperture, when I edit those images the bounce flash shots look colourful and punchy, but my prime shots will have a more romantic timeless feel and more important look professional and give a look that my clients expect.


The camera is just a storage box, it's the gLass in front that makes the image...

  
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newbieincs
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Jan 28, 2013 16:45 |  #30

JeffreyG wrote in post #15537279 (external link)
I think it's kind of a typical journey, at least for people that can afford it.

1) Get dSLR, kit lens.
2) Frustrated with onboard flash, lousy indoor pictures.
3) Get a fast prime. Amazed.
4) The lost years - all shallow DOF all the time. Talk about 'bokeh' a lot.
5) Sell all zooms. Talk about being an 'all primes' shooter like this is the same as 'have huge manhood'.
6) Grandma says "Nice picture, shame all of Suzie isn't in focus." Shake head at crazy old lady. Later realize old lady has a good point.
7) Realize that not all available light is pretty light. Get Speedlight. Amazed by bouncing light.
8) Read strobist blog. Sell all fast primes. Travel everywhere with two lightstands and remotes.
9) Get sick of lugging lighting gear everywhere. Rethink everything.
10) Realize that good available light is fine, and the ability to make good light is important too. Acquire balanced kit of zooms and primes that match interests. Shoot with available light sometimes, shoot with flash sometimes.

Exactly what I went through, except that I never got back to zooms. I find my photos turn out better with prime because it forces me to think.

The process of going from 1-10 was fun though. Getting amazed by new thing every other week, thinking that it is the best thing since sliced bread.




  
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