aps-c being killed off by canon ?

JohnB57 wrote in post #15559588
Hi Sunbeam. The original point was the possibility of Canon restricting crop sensors to the Rebel/XXXD line. I don't think it's imaginable that they would dump the format altogether.

And the M line and the xxD line. Just nothing in the xD line.

A fair number of Canon users claim that they would not consider changing systems because of their investment in EF lenses. For those with ASP-C cameras, that includes EF-S lenses. Making the latter unusable to professional and semi-pro users unless they want to stick with 2009 technology will, I would predict, lead to more serious consideration of switching to another brand.

Personally, I think that a 7D2 will be announced, and it will be ASP-C. The 7D has sold too well as a crop for Canon to ignore and, as others have pointed out, a FF 7D2 would be redundant with the current offerings.

The way prices are dropping on the 7D, around $1200 New, I think it makes sense a 7Dmkii
will enter the market at what the original 7d, and even the 50D entered the market around $1800....then people can make a choice between 6D FF, or a Sports Shooter 7D, 10 fps..etc...etc...., same price point but different target market.......then we will all discuss if the extra $600 from mki to mk ii is worth the improvements.

Just my thought.....

Ben Rubinstein wrote in post #15559015
Got a feeling from what he said that APC is going to the M line and digital rebels but everything else will be FF. Not a bad idea either.

This is how I read it.

I think that regardless of sensor size, component costs for the sensor itself will be less of an issue in the future. However, the physical size of a camera will continue to be a limitation in what type of sensor can be implemented (just look at cellphone cameras).

It therefore makes sense to put the smaller APS-C sensors in the smaller cameras (Rebels, EOS-M), and upgrade all the full-sized SLRs to full frame. Price differences among those cameras will mainly result from sophistication of AF systems and processors, control interface, and other bells and whistles like wireless and GPS. This is not unlike the T3i, 60D, and 7D trio. All use essentially identical 18 MP APS-C sensors. The main differences lie in the electronics packages implemented in each, AF systems, and user interface. Customers can pick whichever one works best for them, and always get good clean images from the same type of sensor.

Canon's profits are down 30%, and they already make a full frame 7DmkII it's just labeled the 1DX. And if I had to purchase a 1DX and lenses that were 1.6x longer with the same aperture then I'd be spending way more than 30%....which of course would put me out of the market and I'd be stuck with something made for landscapers and has built in wifi and GPS, which is oh so handy shooting indoor sports.

However I've seen many threads on this Canon Centric forum, that would indicate the higher quality APS-C line is loosing out to Nikon because of the noise performance. When I traveled to Disney in the fall I easily saw 50 Nikon entry level DSLRs for every other Canon I saw (mine + 3 others the whole trip). Much emphasis is put into the EF-S line that has a few decent zooms and many mediocre ones, but there hasn't been a nifty 35 or other lenses that help blur the gap between the lenses at an entry price point from Canon the way Nikon has done it. Nikon also has much more frequent brand defined advertising to get people into the door. Ashton walking around a party of elites, with which ever DSLR, Mirrorless or point n shoot they want to feature.
They spend a lot of time talking about the EOS M which was late to the party priced higher than the competitors and offered middle of the road nothing innovative features, so it is basically the point in shoot for those dedicated to canon in the western markets.

And here's a link to the article for those interested in reading the whole story.
http://www.dpreview.co​m …-with-canons-masaya-maeda

I can see how for Canon the semi-pro line is in doubt, I just hope it sticks around long enough that I'll be able to justify going full pro before they dump it.

gjl711 wrote in post #15559673
The idea isn't a flop, Canon's implementation is. They came to the party late and they came with a very weak offering. Canon, wake the 'eff up or your gonna have another year like 2012.

Amen!
I LOVE the idea and actually had one on order til I did some further reading and a few trusted sources picked it apart.

talbot_sunbeam wrote in post #15559572
Canon wouldn't be investing in making EF-S lenses if they were giving up the APS-C format.

They are not giving up on it. They are reserving the APS-C format for the entry level cameras...rebels and EOS-M. They are using full frame for the pro-sumer and professional level cameras.

They would tick me off like crazy if they made the 7D FF.

They need to offer more for the people to keep spending money.

Full frame sensors don't cost much more to make than APS-c. It's just a larger chunk of silicone - the processing is the same.

Either they'll give you an extra stop of ISO on APS-c or if they can't do that, they'll give you a full frame in prosumer body. Why not make a profit if people would buy them for 1500 bucks?

How does one interpret " 'From our semi-pro users there's still demand for APS-C but in the future, I think we will see an increase in the number of full-frame models.' as "We're stopping putting APS-C in the semi-pro line-up."

"There will be an increase in full-frame models" does not mean "There will be only full-frame models".

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #15560581
Full frame sensors don't cost much more to make than APS-c. It's just a larger chunk of silicone - the processing is the same.

Full-frame sensors do cost a lot more to make that APS-C. According to one source it's a factor of 20!

hollis_f wrote in post #15560598
Full-frame sensors do cost a lot more to make that APS-C. According to one source it's a factor of 20!

Canons full frame white paper says the same.
http://www.robgalbrait​h.com …rame_CMOS_White​_Paper.pdf

It has been said already, but FF sensors (at the moment) are much more expensive to produce than an APS-C sized sensor.

And that's the real reason that Canon will simply not get rid of APS-C - the entire line of cameras, from the lowliest Rebel all the way up to the 7D (and future 7D2 or 70D) are cheap, sell like hotcakes, and have good profit margins.

hollis_f wrote in post #15560587
How does one interpret " 'From our semi-pro users there's still demand for APS-C but in the future, I think we will see an increase in the number of full-frame models.' as "We're stopping putting APS-C in the semi-pro line-up."

"There will be an increase in full-frame models" does not mean "There will be only full-frame models".

You are right in an absolute sense that he is not saying what many are assuming. But I think you also have to factor in the "some day" comment about a 70D and no mention at all of a 7DII. At best I think we may see one more iteration of the 7D with an APS-C sensor, but I think that quote is corporate-speak for "no more cropped semi-pro cameras". We are being eased in to the transition...

mpix345 wrote in post #15560725
But I think you also have to factor in the "some day" comment about a 70D and no mention at all of a 7DII.

Er, why? He was specifically asked about the 70D, so he specifically replied about the 70D.