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FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Sports 
Thread started 28 Jan 2013 (Monday) 22:31
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First time using speedlite for hs basketball

 
Sklar
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Jan 30, 2013 18:17 |  #16

Before you even consider strobbing basketball make sure that you are insured!

when shooting with flashes, you rely on the flash duration of the lights to stop the action
letting in ambient light while shooting with the flashes will result in blur and/or ghosting (like you got)
this means that your exposure without the flashes should leave the frame completely or almost completely black (the more ambient, the more blur)
With the speedlights those shadows and harsh light ("flashed" look) are pretty much unavoidable, as the light will not have enough power to bounce. You can get softer light by using a strobe and bouncing it.




  
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stoltz73
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Jan 30, 2013 21:06 as a reply to  @ post 15553483 |  #17

Tried this again tonight. Bumped the flash to 1/2 power, camera settings at 800 iso, f 3.5 and 250. They look better, how to get them even better?

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NewEnglandPhotographer
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Jan 30, 2013 21:24 |  #18

Huge difference. Unfortunately because you are using flashes instead of strobes, there is not much you can do better with lighting. You can improve shooting at peak action, avoid cut limbs, and watching your backgrounds.


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Jan 31, 2013 08:54 as a reply to  @ NewEnglandPhotographer's post |  #19

Out of the three sets you posted the all ambient set has the best lighting by far.

I understand you probably want to do something creative with the light so far off to the side, but I think you would like the results better if you had your flash more on-axis.

I would start with the same settings you used for yor ambient shot. From there I would open up to your max apeture and use the extra exposure to increase shutter speed from 1/500 to 1/800. That would put you at ISO 6400, f/2.8, and 1/800.

From there I would add in some fill flash (close to on axis).


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Jan 31, 2013 23:02 |  #20

If you truly want to freeze action completely with your flash, turn off your flash, set it to 1/200 and drop the iso, take a few shots droping the ISO until you get an all black image, once you have an all black image turn your flash back on and either set it to ETTL or start with 1/1 flash, 1/2, 1/4 etc until you get a correct exposure on your subject..... other than that my advice is to get yourself an 85mm 1.8 for basketball otherwise you will be fighting an uphill battle.


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Gonzofan
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Feb 01, 2013 08:16 |  #21

I have to tell you those last shots look pretty darn good to me.

I've really been struggling w/ BB and using ambient light. The school recently got better light which really makes a difference. But I'm still not satisfied with my photos. I have to shoot at 3200 w/ 1.8 or 2.0 50/85mm lens. Problem is I get too many soft focus shots. As someone else pointed out, maybe it's taking my 7D too long to get the focus point, but I also know sometimes I'm off the mark even though I use the single point, AI Servo mode.

THE POINT IS...I think I'm going to have to go back to speedlight. I used it last year and the photos were pretty good with my kit 55-250 lens. Shooting at 3200+ just puts too much, to me, unacceptable grain into the shot.

I also agree that you have to shoot no less than 500 - I usually shoot 800-1000 - but I'm not sure if that even matters with flash.

My two cents is you just have to shoot a ton of photos - experiment and find what works for you. I'm still learning myself.




  
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Feb 01, 2013 08:56 |  #22

FWIW. I suggest looking through this thread: https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1258880

There are a ton of great examples and the many shots of the lighting set ups with settings shared.


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Feb 01, 2013 11:43 |  #23

stoltz73 wrote in post #15554392 (external link)
Tried this again tonight. Bumped the flash to 1/2 power, camera settings at 800 iso, f 3.5 and 250. They look better, how to get them even better?

QUOTED IMAGE

QUOTED IMAGE

QUOTED IMAGE

Get your lights up higher and feather flash upward so that the light isn't so direct. This will help eleminate some of the harsh shadows. You may want to try ISO1000 or bump up your exposure in post by about 1/2 a stop. You are getting close.


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stoltz73
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Feb 01, 2013 15:54 |  #24

tmalone893 wrote in post #15560327 (external link)
Get your lights up higher and feather flash upward so that the light isn't so direct. This will help eleminate some of the harsh shadows. You may want to try ISO1000 or bump up your exposure in post by about 1/2 a stop. You are getting close.

The lights are about twenty foot above the floor. When you say feather the flash upward, I had them aimed between the foul line and three point line. So should I aim them between the 3 point line and the volleyball line?

Thanks




  
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Feb 01, 2013 16:01 |  #25

Aim them to the top of the key, the center of the three point line, and tilt the flash slightly updward towards the roof, about 20* from being level. You will need an umbrella adaptor to do this. Good luck.


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stoltz73
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Feb 02, 2013 06:51 |  #26

rdalrt wrote in post #15549766 (external link)
Were you at least 2 stops below ambient at those settings of 1/200, f4, 1200?

Can someone tell me how to do this? Might be a dumb question but not sure what 2 stops is. Are you asking if I wasn't shooting with flash would I be shooting at f2.8 with all the other setting the same. Just not sure

Thanks




  
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n1as
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Feb 02, 2013 08:14 as a reply to  @ stoltz73's post |  #27

Doubling or halving the shutter speed or ISO results in 1 stop of light change. The goal is to have your ambient exposure be such that your image is too dark. If you get a good ambient exposure at 1/500 f/2.8 ISO 3200 then bumping the shutter to 1/2000 or the ISO to 800 will give you an underexposed image.

Then you use the flash as the main light in the scene. Great theory, but there are problems.

1. Direct flash leaves harsh shadows.
2. If you bounce the flash it may not be bright enough to still be 2 stops brighter than ambient.
3. 2 Stops above ambient may not be enough to freeze the motion
4. Speedlights on full power have a 1/850 sec duration. You'll still have some motion blur.

I used to get some good results by bouncing the flash off the ceiling. I shot with the lens wide open (always) and the shutter at max sync (1/200?) with ISO set to give proper exposure. Flash on full power. It was not enough to be 2 stops above ambient but I did get some good results still.

Then we got new lights in the gym and it is brighter. The flash stays home now.

Here's an example of one 580EX bounced off the ceiling.


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Feb 02, 2013 12:09 |  #28

n1as wrote in post #15563497 (external link)
Doubling or halving the shutter speed or ISO results in 1 stop of light change. The goal is to have your ambient exposure be such that your image is too dark. If you get a good ambient exposure at 1/500 f/2.8 ISO 3200 then bumping the shutter to 1/200 or the ISO to 800 will give you an underexposed image.

Then you use the flash as the main light in the scene. Great theory, but there are problems.

1. Direct flash leaves harsh shadows. - I don't totally agree with this. You can feather the light and get good reults.
2. If you bounce the flash it may not be bright enough to still be 2 stops brighter than ambient. - I agree with this.
3. 2 Stops above ambient may not be enough to freeze the motion - True but a little motion blur in the feet or hands looks better to me then noisy picture or using an aperture like f/2 that has very small focus area.
4. Speedlights on full power have a 1/850 sec duration. You'll still have some motion blur. True, I've gone to two lights, 1/2 power, in each corner.

Here are some examples of one flash in each corner, full power and feathered upward. Shadows are unnoticeable. 1/200, ISO1000, f/3.5

IMAGE: http://www.maloneactionshots.com/img/s8/v85/p1411492536-4.jpg

IMAGE: http://www.maloneactionshots.com/img/s2/v72/p1411492498-4.jpg

IMAGE: http://www.maloneactionshots.com/img/s4/v65/p1411492524-4.jpg

Here is an example of two flashes in each corner:
IMAGE: http://www.maloneactionshots.com/img/s11/v35/p1326587462-4.jpg

IMAGE: http://www.maloneactionshots.com/img/s2/v73/p1326590302-4.jpg

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doidinho
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Feb 02, 2013 12:25 |  #29

n1as wrote in post #15563497 (external link)
Doubling or halving the shutter speed or ISO results in 1 stop of light change. The goal is to have your ambient exposure be such that your image is too dark. If you get a good ambient exposure at 1/500 f/2.8 ISO 3200 then bumping the shutter to 1/2000 or the ISO to 800 will give you an underexposed image.

Then you use the flash as the main light in the scene. Great theory, but there are problems.

1. Direct flash leaves harsh shadows.
2. If you bounce the flash it may not be bright enough to still be 2 stops brighter than ambient.
3. 2 Stops above ambient may not be enough to freeze the motion
4. Speedlights on full power have a 1/850 sec duration. You'll still have some motion blur.

I used to get some good results by bouncing the flash off the ceiling. I shot with the lens wide open (always) and the shutter at max sync (1/200?) with ISO set to give proper exposure. Flash on full power. It was not enough to be 2 stops above ambient but I did get some good results still.

Then we got new lights in the gym and it is brighter. The flash stays home now.

Here's an example of one 580EX bounced off the ceiling.

Great explaination.

tmalone893 wrote in post #15564181 (external link)
Here are some examples of one flash in each corner, full power and feathered upward. Shadows are unnoticeable. 1/200, ISO1000, f/3.5

QUOTED IMAGE

QUOTED IMAGE

QUOTED IMAGE

Here is an example of two flashes in each corner:
QUOTED IMAGE

Great examples.


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stoltz73
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Feb 21, 2013 18:42 as a reply to  @ doidinho's post |  #30

Tried again later night basically same light setup and camera settings. Still not as sharp as I would like.

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First time using speedlite for hs basketball
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