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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 05 Feb 2013 (Tuesday) 19:02
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Hassled by Property Agent

 
CalPiker
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Feb 05, 2013 21:37 |  #16

Find out what the laws are in your state for trespassing. In CA, you are only trespassing if you are asked to leave and you didn't leave. It might be the same for you in OR. Know your laws. And don't give anyone your ID or other info. You are only required to do so when you are being detained by law enforcement.

I think it's kind of funny though that he wants you to leave, but then he wants you to stay at the same time.

Oh yeah, I'd contact the property owner and request your property back from him. :)


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tfizzle
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Feb 05, 2013 22:21 |  #17

Criminal Trespass in the second degree in OR

Criminal trespass in the second degree
(1) A person commits the crime of criminal trespass in the second degree if the person enters or remains unlawfully in a motor vehicle or in or upon premises.
(2) Criminal trespass in the second degree is a Class C misdemeanor. [1971 c.743 §139; 1999 c.1040 §9]

I did "enter". And the guy was saying that he could have me arrested when the police arrive. However, I phoned the Sherrif's office just after the incident and the deputy said he would have just come out and asked me to leave if I wasn't causing a scene. So who knows. I guess I'll find out when I have a sherrif or a summons visit me.

I just don't know what the guy is going to do with my information now. . .I'm just trying to track down the owner of the property and profusely apologize and let him know that his property manager sure doesn't know how to explain the situation very well. I should have just waited for the deputy to show up.

If the property owner is just relentless I can just go back, stay on the public road, and take a picture every single day the rest of the year just to be annoying...but that's not within my character to be vindictive. I just wonder what ever happened to, "hey, you are on my property. What are you doing? Ah, ok. That seems reasonable but you went through a gate to get there. Please leave and don't come back."




  
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tfizzle
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Feb 05, 2013 23:11 |  #18

icopus wrote in post #15577376 (external link)
Wait a minute. I admit I'm not entirely certain, but I believe some of you have gotten carried away. BTW - this post is about trespassing on private property and not about taking photos of private property.

For instance, someone uses my lawn as a shortcut to their destination. Is that criminal trespassing? I bet most of you would say, "Yes". Actually, it's not that certain. What about the kid retrieving his football? Intention, my friends.

If I have easily visible and clearly worded signage, now it's criminal trespassing.
If I have told this person not to enter my property, then the next time he / she does, it is criminal trespassing.

I find someone standing in my yard. He claims he's admiring my garden. (This is a similar situation to the OP's). Yes, he MAY be trespassing, but again, at this point, he is not criminally trespassing and cannot be legally detained by anyone other than an LEO unless the above points have been met.

OP - I believe you had no obligation to the agent (you did not commit a crime simply by walking on private property) and were free to go once he 'gave notice' to you.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


There was a fence and a sign. I didn't see the sign but I did cross a fence line through the gate. Looks like in Oregon that's all it takes to be a criminal offense. When he demanded my identification is when I questioned him and he said I'd be arrested.

I believe that he can now go to the district attorney and ask him to bring up charges since he has my information. The deputy/sherrifs office seemed to think that it wasn't an issue given the circumstances but that doesn't mean the DA will be nice if the property manager pushes the issue.

The only thing I can think of is to contact the real owner and ask for some mercy.




  
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Curtis ­ N
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Feb 05, 2013 23:18 |  #19

tfizzle wrote in post #15577703 (external link)
I believe that he can now go to the district attorney and ask him to bring up charges since he has my information. The deputy/sherrifs office seemed to think that it wasn't an issue given the circumstances but that doesn't mean the DA will be nice if the property manager pushes the issue.

The DA has more important things to do, and so does the Sheriff's department.

Quit fretting about this, learn from your mistake, and go find something you can legally photograph.


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tfizzle
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Feb 05, 2013 23:32 |  #20

I hope that is true. All the other cases that I see with criminal trespasses have to do with drunks, squatters, shoplifters coming back to banned stores, and things of the like. I've also seen where ppl go and hang out and watch sunsets on private industrial areas but haven't came across a case where it was two pedestrians going over a fence line.




  
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Luxornv
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Feb 05, 2013 23:41 |  #21

I'd have told the agent sorry for trespassing and left. If he pressed for my information like he did in your case, I'd have just ignored him and continued to leave. Unless you have multiple warrants out for your arrest, nothing is going to happen.


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tfizzle
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Feb 05, 2013 23:42 |  #22

I did have a fine for talking on my phone while driving once. Lol $120 later and taken care of.




  
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watt100
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Feb 06, 2013 04:31 |  #23

Luxornv wrote in post #15577757 (external link)
I'd have told the agent sorry for trespassing and left. If he pressed for my information like he did in your case, I'd have just ignored him and continued to leave. Unless you have multiple warrants out for your arrest, nothing is going to happen.


that's what I would have done (and have done!)




  
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xhack
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Feb 06, 2013 05:34 |  #24

Wow, your access rights are pretty restrictive. Our property access laws (external link) were tidied up 10 years ago, with certain rights ascribed to landowners and placing responsibilities on those who wish to assert access rights.

Scottish courts have always been historically leery of property rights, given the 18th and 19th century land grabs by clan chiefs during the Highland Clearances, creating huge sporting estates. Things came to a head in the late 1940s when a landowner filed a civil case for trespass. The court found for the plaintiff, awarded a derisory farthing damages (1/4 of a penny) for damage to grass when walking across pasture, and laid the legal costs on the landowner. Ouch.

But, hell, everyone knows our country is populated by damn' soshulists.


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YamahaRob
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Feb 07, 2013 02:36 |  #25

Friend of mine I ghost hunt with and another one of the group one of these days are gonna get hit with a tresspassing ticket. These two like to go up to reported haunted places (one is a landmark and city owned) and walk around the property. I keep asking him is it worth a ticket over $300. They usually do this on weekday nights (I work 2nd so I'm not with them and wont go on these properties without owners permission anyways).

Trespassing on someones properties can bring alot more than a fine. My brother has some land in north central WI. He has a trailer there for camping during the summer. His one neighbor, who is a city person with an attitude to boot, is constantly giving my brother grief with his friends riding their quads through my brothers land tearing up his access road and some of the trails my nieces ride their bicycles on when they are there. It ended rather badly for this guys buddy and the sheriff had a chat with the neighbor with his buddy sitting in the back of the squad with most likely soiled pants for assault with a deadly weapon (using the ATV), tresspassing and a warrant.


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Todd ­ Lambert
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Feb 07, 2013 11:15 |  #26

There are certainly consequences involved with UE. If you're not willing to accept those, then you should not be doing UE.

Unfortunately, these types of people are the ones that have been falling off old buildings and dying a lot, lately. Which in turn makes things worse for those who do go in prepared, whether it be ropes, breathing apparatus, etc...

About the only thing that honestly gets me nervous, is being shot by an overzealous property owner or do-gooder.

But, I accept these risks in doing what I do. I try to minimize the possibility of bad things as much as possible, but in the end, if something happens, it's ALL on me.




  
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SkipD
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Feb 07, 2013 11:46 |  #27

Todd Lambert wrote in post #15583146 (external link)
There are certainly consequences involved with UE. If you're not willing to accept those, then you should not be doing UE.

What, exactly, do you mean by "UE"? I cannot find any reasonable definition for that abbreviation as related to this thread on common web-based abbreviation sites.


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rick_reno
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Feb 07, 2013 11:51 |  #28

might be "urban exploration"




  
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20droger
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Feb 07, 2013 11:51 |  #29

SkipD wrote in post #15583266 (external link)
What, exactly, do you mean by "UE"? I cannot find any reasonable definition for that abbreviation as related to this thread on common web-based abbreviation sites.

Or maybe "Unauthorized Entry," a lawyer's term for "trespass."

It says to forgive us our trespasses, but says nothing about unauthorized entries.




  
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Todd ­ Lambert
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Feb 07, 2013 11:51 |  #30

Yes, sorry... urban exploration.




  
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