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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 30 Jul 2012 (Monday) 16:44
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Yongnuo YN-622C Controller Trigger

 
24Peter
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Feb 04, 2013 10:57 |  #1846

Furinox wrote in post #15528265 (external link)
I have been able to use 1/8000th with my alien bee 1600 on full power with no black bar/banding at the bottom.

Can someone tell me how to do this? I haven't been able to achieve this. What settings are you using?


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Feb 04, 2013 11:24 |  #1847

Have any one tried if the SIGMA 530DG works on this 622? I am planning to get one but note sure if it will work on my Sigma 530DG flash.

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Feb 04, 2013 13:49 |  #1848

Furinox wrote in post #15528265 (external link)
I have been able to use 1/8000th with my alien bee 1600 on full power with no black bar/banding at the bottom.

24Peter wrote in post #15570885 (external link)
Can someone tell me how to do this? I haven't been able to achieve this. What settings are you using?

I'm guessing Full Power ?


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Feb 04, 2013 14:25 |  #1849

Ian71 wrote in post #15570951 (external link)
Have any one tried if the SIGMA 530DG works on this 622? I am planning to get one but note sure if it will work on my Sigma 530DG flash.

The Sigma EF EF 530 DG Super is a Class 2 flash with HSS.

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24Peter
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Feb 04, 2013 14:31 |  #1850

Bobster wrote in post #15571524 (external link)
I'm guessing Full Power ?

I'm sorry, were you trying to be helpful? :D


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Feb 04, 2013 15:32 |  #1851

24Peter wrote in post #15570838 (external link)
Thanks Clive - the flash fires OK @ 1/200th so there don't appear to be connection issues. It's just there's no useable light above 1/200th - even at full power, there's only the tiniest bit of light visible across the bottom of the frame.

What S/S above 1/200th? I see that the specs say the T1 time is:
1/600 second (at full power)
1/300 second (at 1/32 power)
The timings are tight. If the light is from the AB, then HSS is engaged in the camera, and I can think of two explanations. The light starts before the shutter is open, and does not last long enough for the full shutter movement. Or, you are under-exposing, and the light you see is from the peak, and the tail is insufficient to provide exposure.


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24Peter
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Feb 04, 2013 19:18 |  #1852

OK, as always, thanks Clive for your input. I am able to get the Hypersync function working (SS > 1/200th), but here's the bottom line: I get much more light from my 430EX II than my AB at full power when SuperSyncing with the YN-622C's. Yes there is light when using the AB but nothing I'd consider useable. My Canon Speedlite is a much better choice when I want to shoot with SS above 1/200th.


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Feb 04, 2013 20:44 |  #1853

Peter - at 1/600th flash T1 duration, I would not expect reasonably even lighting from 1/250s to 1/640s.

HSS is what Canon calls "flat light", and covers the whole span of the shutter opening.


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oniscus
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Feb 06, 2013 06:43 |  #1854

24Peter wrote in post #15568833 (external link)
Received my YN-622C's yesterday. They are working fine with my 430EX & EX II Speedlites as expected. But I am unable to realize any kind of SuperHyperSync with my AB 1600. I've followed Clive's guide but am not getting anything that is even remotely useable above 1/200th (I'm shooting with a 5DII). Can someone who has had success SuperHyperSyncing their AB 1600 (or 800) chime in and walk me thru it?

I got 100m+ on these using 430ex and a 5d3.


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Feb 06, 2013 09:31 |  #1855

24Peter wrote in post #15572737 (external link)
OK, as always, thanks Clive for your input. I am able to get the Hypersync function working (SS > 1/200th), but here's the bottom line: I get much more light from my 430EX II than my AB at full power when SuperSyncing with the YN-622C's. Yes there is light when using the AB but nothing I'd consider useable. My Canon Speedlite is a much better choice when I want to shoot with SS above 1/200th.

In my experience the best way to approach HyperSync is:
Use higher powered monolights with longer flash durations.
Use lower power setting which lengthen the flash duration.
The goal is to flatten the slope of the tail to minimize the light fall off.
Ironically cheaper monolights such as the Calumet Genesis work better because they have longer flash durations


Here is material from the Pocket Wizard website that explains how HSS and HyperSync (SuperSync) work. (I edited out ControlTL specific information to make it more generic.)

The following is taken from the Pocket Wizard Website:
(it has been edited to make the information generic rather than ControlTL specific.)
HyperSync and High Speed Sync both allow flash triggering with a camera at shutter speeds faster than X-sync. They function differently, however, and it is important to understand how X-Sync and High Speed Sync work to understand what is happening with HyperSync.

X-Sync
A flash directly connected to a camera

X-Sync is typically the fastest shutter speed at which your camera can trigger a flash. A camera triggering a flash at X-sync follows this time-line:
1. The camera is triggered by the photographer. Several milliseconds of Lag Time pass.
2. The first shutter opens, exposing the digital sensor. Some microseconds of time pass. This shutter will stay open for several milliseconds when the camera is set to X-Sync.
3. The camera triggers its PC terminal and hot shoe.
4. Some microseconds of time pass, then the flash begins to emit light.
5. The flash emits light for its Flash Duration. This can be any amount of time up to a few milliseconds.
6. The second shutter in the camera closes and both shutters reset.

Shutter speeds faster than X-Sync typically have the first and second shutters moving at the same time, or with no delay between the first shutter fully opening and the second shutter beginning to close. This does not work with normal flash triggering because the second shutter can be moving when the flash is generating light, which yields a clipped exposure.

If your flash has a very long duration, or your shutter is very slow moving, you can get clipping even at X-sync.

A flash triggered remotely by a standard radio slave
Adding a standard radio slave to the above time line adds additional microseconds between steps 3 and 4. This additional delay moves the flash triggering moment towards the time when the second shutter will be moving. If your flash has a very long duration, or your shutter is very slow moving, you can get clipping when using a standard radio slave even at X-sync. You may have to use a slower shutter speed.

High Speed Sync
High Speed Sync (HSS), also known as Auto FP Sync, allows for triggering at shutter speeds faster than X-Sync.
"FP" stands for "Focal Plane." When the first shutter starts to open, it is exposing the digital sensor, which is the Focal Plane. FP Sync means triggering the flash just before the focal plane is exposed rather than waiting until shutter is fully open.

HSS uses a pulsed light technique that generates continuous light from before the first shutter begins to move until after the second shutter closes. At faster shutter speeds, both the first and second shutters are moving simultaneously, creating a moving slit across the digital sensor. Since the light appears continuous to the digital sensor, there is no clipping even at the fastest shutter speeds.

HSS requires a special flash like a Speedlite/Speedlight that can do the pulsed light technique. It also requires special timing information from the camera called pre-sync that is communicated through the TTL pins of a camera's hot shoe. A normal studio flash or standard non-TTL flash cannot perform the light pulse technique, nor does it have the electrical connections required to use the pre-sync information from the camera's TTL hot shoe pins.

An HSS time line would look like this:
1. The camera is triggered by the photographer. Several milliseconds of Lag Time pass.
2. Just before the first shutter would open, pre-sync occurs. This tells the Speedlight when to begin generating pulsed light as ...
3. The first shutter opens, exposing the digital sensor while the flash continuously pulses throughout the exposure.
4. Shortly after the first shutter moves, the second shutter begins to move. The pulsed light continues.
5. The second shutter in the camera closes and both shutters reset. The flash stops pulsing.

The pulsed light technique cannot emit as much light as a normal flash pulse as it uses a lot of energy to make the light continuous. This means that your flash must be much closer to the subject to be effective.

HyperSync
A normal flash is much more efficient at delivering light to a subject than an HSS or pulsed flash method. You can have your flash farther from a subject, or deliver more light to the scene when using a normal flash.


HyperSync uses the pre-sync information available in the TTL shoe pins to trigger a normal flash before X-Sync would occur. It does this by knowing how much time passes from pre-sync until X-sync. It can also eliminate the delay introduced by a radio slave.

Subject Illumination Using the Tail
HyperSync uses the long tail of light generated after the peak is finished in a standard flash. This long tail is seen as continuous light for a shutter speed faster than X-Sync. Optimizing for the tail can often work for the fastest shutter speeds all the way up to 1/8000. This method delivers much less light to the camera's sensor than using the peak, but depending on your studio flash in use it can be substantially more than what is delivered by a Speedlight in HSS mode.

This method is only effective with studio flash. Speedlites do not generate enough light during the tail to be more effective than using HSS would be.


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Feb 06, 2013 14:04 |  #1856

Thanks for the contribution, David. Unlike the PW, the 622 has no setting for the start of the burn, so, depending on gear used, it is possible to get different light envelopes during the exposure.

Both produce peak and tail, but the 622 cannot modify where the peak occurs in relation to the movement of the shutter blades.

User tests last year indicated that AB400 inadequate, AB800 adeqate in some circumstances, AB1600 generally OK. So I listed it that way. Is this view misleading? Does the apparent effectiveness depend on the ambient contribution in the shot?


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Feb 06, 2013 14:35 |  #1857

Today, one of the users 1DX found the following:

E-TTL II
Wireless mode
MASTER FLASH is "Disable": The system works as expected,
MASTER FLASH is "Eneble":

  • Firing group: ALL - The system works as expected
  • Firing group: A: B / A: B, C flash fired at full power, if the balance is shifted from zero


Use Flash: Canon 580EXII and 580EX
In the coming days, it may be tested several cameras 1DX
The same hardware is working without problems with 1Ds mkIII

The source, who originally gave me the information about the complete compatibility with 1DX, in the coming days will make a new test

Request to 1DX users to confirm or deny

WWW.YN622.RU (external link) CANON EOS 70D | EF 50mm F/1.4 USM | EF 24-105mm F/4L IS USM | EF-S 10-18mm F/4.5-5.6 IS STM | JINBEI DPIII600 | EINSTEIN E-640+CC/CST/CSXCV/CSR | YONGNUO: YN600EX-RT, YN-E3-RT, YNE3-RX, YN622C-TX, YN622C, RF-605C | SHANNY: SN-E3-RT, SN600C-RT, SN-E3-RF, SN600EX-RF, SN600C-RF, SN600SC, SN600SN, SN910EX-RF | PIXEL X800C (bulb dead)

  
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Feb 06, 2013 22:22 |  #1858

CliveyBoy wrote in post #15579844 (external link)
Thanks for the contribution, David. Unlike the PW, the 622 has no setting for the start of the burn, so, depending on gear used, it is possible to get different light envelopes during the exposure.

Both produce peak and tail, but the 622 cannot modify where the peak occurs in relation to the movement of the shutter blades.

User tests last year indicated that AB400 inadequate, AB800 adeqate in some circumstances, AB1600 generally OK. So I listed it that way. Is this view misleading? Does the apparent effectiveness depend on the ambient contribution in the shot?

Clive, I have never really spent much time with the peak method. It is too limiting.

Because of the power loss, lower output monolights will generally not provide enough power to be useful using the tail method.

While its interesting to experiment with HyperSync (SuperSync) I've never really found it very useful.

My primary purpose in posting the material from PW site is that there seems to be a lot of confusion about what HyperSync (SuperSync) is relative to High Speed Sync.

Generally, the ambient light hides the gradated light from HyperSync. Some of the success depends on being able to place the subject relative to the shutter travel to make the light more effective.

As with HSS HyperSync reduces the light output by two or more EV. Thus an AB400 is down to about 40Ws at full power. That's not much light.


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sherpa25
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Feb 07, 2013 03:36 |  #1859

Hi, I just got my first flash (568ex) for my newly-acquired 60d, and still studying the wireless features. Is there a list of features that the 622c can do that the 60d wireless can't? So far I've read the former can do HSS and SCS for off-flash, while the latter can only do this for on-camera flash, and the advantage of radio (w/ the 622c) versus optical (60d wireless). Although I've managed to have the 60d wireless work even when the off-camera was partially hidden (perhaps due to signal bouncing)? I only intend to have 1 on/off-camera flash (and 'maybe' 2 the most, in the future), both in e-ttl and manual. Are there any other advantages for my current needs?

I just found this forum recently and am only almost half-way reading through the forum, and though a lot of very good material has been shared, most I see are for studio/strobes or multiple flash setups.

Thanks.


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Feb 07, 2013 05:56 |  #1860

sherpa25 wrote in post #15582032 (external link)
Is there a list of features that the 622c can do that the 60d wireless can't?

You've pretty well summed it up in your post. The one advantage of the 622 is that there are no visible control pre-flashes using off-camera flash. Some people have quick blink reflexes and will close their eyes in response to the pre-exposure flashes.

Optical slave flashes work with the 622's, whereas the control flashes from the popup cause early triggering and no contribution to the exposure.

Also, doing close-up shots with large apertures and higher ISO's, the fire command flash from the 60D's popup, even if it's been disabled from adding to the exposure, will show in the picture.




  
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