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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Feb 2013 (Tuesday) 13:40
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Is it time for Canon to use Sony sensors?

 
jdizzle
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Feb 07, 2013 15:47 |  #166

andrikos wrote in post #15583608 (external link)
If you've seen Nikon's recent financial statements you would agree that neither dSLR giant is doing so well right now.
This is in response to people saying that Nikon is wiping the floor with Canon. Not true.

There are many extraneous factors that contribut(ed)/ing to this:
World financial crisis, strong Yen, Tsunami/earthquake/nuc​lear meltdown, floods in Thailand, peoples' changing needs/wants, smartphones encroaching into the bottom of the digital photo domain etc. etc. etc.

This is the way I see it:
Canon has a HUGE advantage here: They OWN their technology, they OWN their semiconductor manufacturing, they OWN their IP. If you were in the semiconductor industry for as long as I have (15+ years) you'd see what a huge advantage this is.

Sure, we can dive into the minutiae of Sony having the upper hand in sensor technology now (would YOU buy a Sony dSLR?) but, if you are Nikon, the absolute best you can hope for (and it's pretty damn good now) is to use someone else's (Sony's) tech. But, because you're relying on a 3rd source for your H/W, your profitability suffers, your ability to deliver product can suffer (depending on Fab loadings etc.) among many other disadvantages.

Canon, OTOH, can leapfrog (as they have done in the past) everybody else with a single technological renovation.
And they already have the biggest arsenal (cannons, get it?) of lenses out there.
The best photographic tools
The biggest share market.
The biggest second hand market.
The most active/best forum.

Once the 180nm tech goes live, what else will there be to "woo" you to the dark side?
Look at the big picture... Don't use an 800mm to look at the tiny bird in the tree, try the ultrawide to enjoy the forest...

PS Has anybody noticed Nikon's 800mm lens will sell for $18k? I'd love to see the reaction here if Canon did the same... :D

The only problem Canon has to fix is the banding. It's been going on since the 1D MK 2! You'd think they'd fix it by now!! :lol: All I'm reading in everyone's post is how loyal they are to Canon. ;)




  
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rusty.jg
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Feb 07, 2013 15:52 |  #167

jdizzle wrote in post #15584047 (external link)
The only problem Canon has to fix is the banding. It's been going on since the 1D MK 2! You'd think they'd fix it by now!! :lol: All I'm reading in everyone's post is how loyal they are to Canon. ;)

Amen to that. This and the DR are the two reasons I jumped to a Sony sensor.


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Hogloff
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Feb 07, 2013 15:53 |  #168
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jrbdmb wrote in post #15584017 (external link)
So you have contacts at Canon telling you they are happy with sales? :rolleyes:

The 6D is already being discounted $250 below its original street price, and it's only been available for a month or two. The 5D III was recently selling for $600 below its original street price. These dramatic price drops sound like Canon isn't happy with current sales levels.

Canon did not make their sales forecast for 2012. I don't think they are happy.




  
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watt100
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Feb 07, 2013 15:58 |  #169

andrikos wrote in post #15583608 (external link)
If you've seen Nikon's recent financial statements you would agree that neither dSLR giant is doing so well right now.
This is in response to people saying that Nikon is wiping the floor with Canon. Not true.

There are many extraneous factors that contribut(ed)/ing to this:
World financial crisis, strong Yen, Tsunami/earthquake/nuc​lear meltdown, floods in Thailand, peoples' changing needs/wants, smartphones encroaching into the bottom of the digital photo domain etc. etc. etc.

This is the way I see it:
Canon has a HUGE advantage here: They OWN their technology, they OWN their semiconductor manufacturing, they OWN their IP. If you were in the semiconductor industry for as long as I have (15+ years) you'd see what a huge advantage this is.

Sure, we can dive into the minutiae of Sony having the upper hand in sensor technology now (would YOU buy a Sony dSLR?) but, if you are Nikon, the absolute best you can hope for (and it's pretty damn good now) is to use someone else's (Sony's) tech. But, because you're relying on a 3rd source for your H/W, your profitability suffers, your ability to deliver product can suffer (depending on Fab loadings etc.) among many other disadvantages.

Canon, OTOH, can leapfrog (as they have done in the past) everybody else with a single technological renovation.
And they already have the biggest arsenal (cannons, get it?) of lenses out there.
The best photographic tools
The biggest share market.
The biggest second hand market.
The most active/best forum.

Once the 180nm tech goes live, what else will there be to "woo" you to the dark side?
Look at the big picture... Don't use an 800mm to look at the tiny bird in the tree, try the ultrawide to enjoy the forest...

PS Has anybody noticed Nikon's 800mm lens will sell for $18k? I'd love to see the reaction here if Canon did the same... :D

I couldn't stand the Nikon colors and flat contrasty IQ - ugh !




  
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plasticmotif
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Feb 07, 2013 16:18 |  #170

Lowner wrote in post #15582444 (external link)
I would not consider Sony by themselves a major player, but Nikon working with Sony is a different matter. Certainly together they have discovered something that Canon has yet to match, never mind exceed!

Sony is THE major player.

Camera's are more than DSLRs. There is trickle down and trickle up. Sony is who I'm betting on for the future. Their sensors are better than pretty much everything out there. Period.

http://www.bloomberg.c​om …igital-camera-models.html (external link)


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RTPVid
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Feb 07, 2013 16:19 |  #171

jdizzle wrote in post #15584047 (external link)
The only problem Canon has to fix is the banding. It's been going on since the 1D MK 2! You'd think they'd fix it by now!! :lol:

I've read reports by users that the 6D sensor is improved in this regard; in fact, reports are that the 6D sensor is superior to the 5DIII sensor in low ISO noise banding.

jdizzle wrote in post #15584047 (external link)
All I'm reading in everyone's post is how loyal they are to Canon. ;)

Brand loyalty is an interesting aspect of consumer psychology... however, I'm trying to talk about business strategy, not brands per se.


Tom

  
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plasticmotif
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Feb 07, 2013 16:23 |  #172

Lowner wrote in post #15582761 (external link)
I don't even know what a Nex7 is! The big question is are they going to remain popular or is this just a fashion thing? I can easily imagine that mobile camera phone sales exceed dSLR sales but would not assume that meant camera phones were the new big thing for serious photography.

Look at my website. Pictures in the 'favorites' gallery are from 5D2 + Zeiss lenses or MP-E 65. Pictures from 'everyday shots' come from a Sony NEX 5N. It's more than capable.

Mirrorless will replace DSLRs. It's just evolution. The mirrorbox is holding the camera back. As soon as real autofocus reaches mirrorless cameras, it's over for DSLRs.


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JohnThomas
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Feb 07, 2013 16:28 |  #173

plasticmotif wrote in post #15584235 (external link)
Mirrorless will replace DSLRs. It's just evolution. The mirrorbox is holding the camera back. As soon as real autofocus reaches mirrorless cameras, it's over for DSLRs.

This is off-topic, but why do you think this? I don't understand how the mirror system is holding DSLR's back. They definitely don't effect sensor performance.


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waterrockets
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Feb 07, 2013 16:35 |  #174

plasticmotif wrote in post #15584235 (external link)
The mirrorbox is holding the camera back. As soon as real autofocus reaches mirrorless cameras, it's over for DSLRs.

I know it. Every time I shoot these days, I'm looking at my photos and just cursing the damned mirror box. I've had to create a remove-mirror-box-artifacts preset in LR4, but you can still tell it's there.


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Hogloff
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Feb 07, 2013 16:37 |  #175
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JohnThomas wrote in post #15584250 (external link)
This is off-topic, but why do you think this? I don't understand how the mirror system is holding DSLR's back. They definitely don't effect sensor performance.

Size, weight, manufacturing costs. There needs to be critical alignment in a mirror system requiring a lot of human intervention. Mirrorless systems are much simpler. In the future a mirrorless camera assembly will be totally automated, very much like it is for phones today. This will drastically reduce production costs...leaving the traditional mirrored cameras in the dust.




  
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Osiriz
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Feb 07, 2013 16:45 |  #176

RTPVid wrote in post #15584218 (external link)
I've read reports by users that the 6D sensor is improved in this regard; in fact, reports are that the 6D sensor is superior to the 5DIII sensor in low ISO noise banding.

Strange but true. The 6D sensor is better than the 5D3 sensor @ low and high ISO settings. Marginally better, but still..

However, SoNikon's sensor blow both of them out of the water in this regard. That kinda says something about it's advantage, doesn't it? :)

The beauty of the Exmor sensor:

IMAGE: http://i47.tinypic.com/zstqg8.jpg

This shot was made from a single RAW-file. Full info and before shot can be seen here: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/ic360/724487127​4/ (external link)

I do hope that Canon will be able to achieve this some day.



  
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jdizzle
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Feb 07, 2013 16:59 |  #177

RTPVid wrote in post #15584218 (external link)
I've read reports by users that the 6D sensor is improved in this regard; in fact, reports are that the 6D sensor is superior to the 5DIII sensor in low ISO noise banding.

Brand loyalty is an interesting aspect of consumer psychology... however, I'm trying to talk about business strategy, not brands per se.

That's good to hear. I haven't kept up on how well the 6D performs but, it's a step in the right direction. :)




  
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jdizzle
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Feb 07, 2013 17:02 |  #178

Osiriz wrote in post #15584311 (external link)
Strange but true. The 6D sensor is better than the 5D3 sensor @ low and high ISO settings. Marginally better, but still..

However, SoNikon's sensor blow both of them out of the water in this regard. That kinda says something about it's advantage, doesn't it? :)

The beauty of the Exmor sensor:

QUOTED IMAGE

This shot was made from a single RAW-file. Full info and before shot can be seen here: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/ic360/724487127​4/ (external link)

I do hope that Canon will be able to achieve this some day.

I'm hoping Canon can will be able too do that but, waiting for it to happen in increments is a waste of money. :)




  
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RTPVid
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Feb 07, 2013 17:05 |  #179

jdizzle wrote in post #15584369 (external link)
I'm hoping Canon can will be able too do that but, waiting for it to happen in increments is a waste of money. :)

Well, not if you don't buy each and every increment! :lol: ;)


Tom

  
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jdizzle
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Feb 07, 2013 17:07 |  #180

RTPVid wrote in post #15584380 (external link)
Well, not if you don't buy each and every increment! :lol: ;)

:lol:




  
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Is it time for Canon to use Sony sensors?
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