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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 07 Feb 2013 (Thursday) 16:31
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Why the blur?

 
D ­ 550D
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Feb 07, 2013 16:31 |  #1

Hello!

Last week I took this photo of a ballet dancer in action.

IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8095/8453545701_f48c88689d_b_d.jpg

1/200th
f/11
ISO 100

Flash camera right, Full power zoomed at 35mm (aprox. 1/600th flash duration according to the manual)

Notice how blurry her feet are. How to avoid this in the future?
IMO this can't be due to ambient light.
1/200th f11 ISO 100 is the reading for the sky, so very little ambient is hitting the girl.

What could it be than?

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gonzogolf
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Feb 07, 2013 16:36 |  #2

To freeze motion you either need a fast enough shutter speed to freeze it naturally (too fast to sync the flash in this case) or use the flash duration to freeze motion. To do that you have to have your ambient about two stops lower than the flash power so in this case you could crank you aperture down F22 and blast with the flash but that would drastically change the photo (dark background and bright girl). Finally if you have a canon speedlite with HSS you could raise your shutter speed and still get fill flash. Given that HSS costs you power you likely would need more than 1 speedlite.

In the case of the above enough ambient is hitting the girl to cause ghosting.




  
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Foodguy
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Feb 07, 2013 16:37 |  #3

D 550D wrote in post #15584266 (external link)
so very little ambient is hitting the girl.

I think there's a tremendous amount of ambient light hitting the girl. In fact, I'd say that there's more ambient than strobe light on her.


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sandpiper
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Feb 07, 2013 16:41 |  #4

D 550D wrote in post #15584266 (external link)
IMO this can't be due to ambient light.

Sorry, but I am pretty sure she was lit by plenty of ambient.

She is in the same light as the building some way behind her. The building is too far back to have been lit with the flash, yet looks to have the same exposure as your dancer.

Also, you say the flash was to camera right, yet the light on the model is coming from camera left, the right side is in slight shadow.

Sorry, but this was exposed by ambient, with the flash as a fill-in at best.




  
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Snydremark
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Feb 07, 2013 16:49 |  #5

sandpiper wrote in post #15584299 (external link)
Sorry, but I am pretty sure she was lit by plenty of ambient.

She is in the same light as the building some way behind her. The building is too far back to have been lit with the flash, yet looks to have the same exposure as your dancer.

Also, you say the flash was to camera right, yet the light on the model is coming from camera left, the right side is in slight shadow.

Sorry, but this was exposed by ambient, with the flash as a fill-in at best.

The followup to which is, 1/200 is not fast enough of a shutter speed to prevent motion blur


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Curtis ­ N
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Feb 07, 2013 16:50 |  #6

D 550D wrote in post #15584266 (external link)
1/200th
f/11
ISO 100

That's equivalent to "sunny 16" exposure. There's sunlight hitting the subject. You've got plenty of ambient exposure.

(aprox. 1/600th flash duration according to the manual)

Even that's sometimes not enough to freeze fast-moving feet. It's still a nice shot, and I wouldn't sweat a little motion in the extremities as long as her face is sharp.


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D ­ 550D
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Feb 07, 2013 16:51 |  #7

sandpiper wrote in post #15584299 (external link)
Sorry, but I am pretty sure she was lit by plenty of ambient.

She is in the same light as the building some way behind her. The building is too far back to have been lit with the flash, yet looks to have the same exposure as your dancer.

Also, you say the flash was to camera right, yet the light on the model is coming from camera left, the right side is in slight shadow.

Sorry, but this was exposed by ambient, with the flash as a fill-in at best.

I moved the flash to the right later on at the shoot and I mixed things up while I wrote the first post. Silly me...

Unfortunately there is only so much that can be done with one speedlight. Guess I should have brought my 430 EX II with me to help the Nissin.


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maverick75
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Feb 07, 2013 17:10 |  #8

You can get past the 1/200 sync speed if you can frame out the shutter band, I tried it out the other day and was able to get 1/500 with a regular flash.

Check this thread out for more info on it.
https://photography-on-the.net …read.php?t=1269​297&page=3


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sandpiper
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Feb 07, 2013 17:14 |  #9

D 550D wrote in post #15584332 (external link)
I moved the flash to the right later on at the shoot and I mixed things up while I wrote the first post. Silly me...

Unfortunately there is only so much that can be done with one speedlight. Guess I should have brought my 430 EX II with me to help the Nissin.

Wherever the flash was, it wasn't affecting the exposure looking at that shot.

As you say, there is only so much you can do with one speedlite. You are going to need a lot more light or a duller day I think. Your settings for that shot are spot on for a subject in good sunlight, so you are going to need to use a faster shutter speed (if you can manage HSS off camera), smaller aperture or lower ISO (if your camera has the ISO 50 expansion capability) or a combination of all 3 of course, to knock your ambient exposure down by 2-3 stops.

Of course, if you don't have HSS and ISO 50, that would leave you needing f/22 at least, which is likely to have some quite noticeable diffraction softening.

You can get around those limits by using a ND filter to dial down the light, so allowing use of the settings you used. The ambient would be reduced by the appropriate number of stops, by the filter, so would now be sufficiently low that it doesn't correctly expose your subject. Of course, the filter will also reduce the light from the flash, so you will need some serious flash output to compensate.

I think you are going to struggle to sufficiently override full sunshine with the two flashguns. You may need to use a studio type strobe (or strobes) powered by a battery pack




  
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sandpiper
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Feb 07, 2013 17:18 as a reply to  @ sandpiper's post |  #10

You might find this thread useful, it is all about overpowering the sun with flash:

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1269297




  
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Feb 07, 2013 18:06 |  #11

Next time just time your photoshoot so the sun is in a better position. I bet at some point during the day the sun is directly behind that building. Shoot at that time and you could potentially have a striking photo. Instead of trying to overpower the sun use it to your advantage through careful planning. The only way you are going to win against the sun is with thousands of dollars of silks and manpower. Even then, you don't always win.


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ku8843
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Feb 07, 2013 21:09 |  #12

Her right leg makes me feel uneasy. Do this shoot at golden hour for a better chance to freeze the action.


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D ­ 550D
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Feb 08, 2013 07:00 |  #13

aroundlsu wrote in post #15584567 (external link)
Next time just time your photoshoot so the sun is in a better position. I bet at some point during the day the sun is directly behind that building. Shoot at that time and you could potentially have a striking photo. Instead of trying to overpower the sun use it to your advantage through careful planning. The only way you are going to win against the sun is with thousands of dollars of silks and manpower. Even then, you don't always win.

This wasn't even a planned photoshoot. I shot a theatre play that day and this "shoot" happened spontaneously when we had a break in early afternoon.

If am going to redo this shoot sometime in spring I can prepare for it and plan ahead. Perhaps scout another location and shoot for sure avoid shooting in mid day.


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Curtis ­ N
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Feb 08, 2013 07:34 |  #14

The thing to remember about shutter speeds, or "effective shutter speeds" of flash duration, is that there is no point at which blur magically goes away. If there is movement, there will be blur. Then it becomes a question of how much blur is noticeable.

If you had eliminated all ambient light, you would have gone from a shutter speed of 1/200 to an effective shutter speed of 1/600. You would get 1/3 as much blur, but there will still be blur.


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D ­ 550D
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Feb 08, 2013 09:07 |  #15

Curtis N wrote in post #15586436 (external link)
The thing to remember about shutter speeds, or "effective shutter speeds" of flash duration, is that there is no point at which blur magically goes away. If there is movement, there will be blur. Then it becomes a question of how much blur is noticeable.

If you had eliminated all ambient light, you would have gone from a shutter speed of 1/200 to an effective shutter speed of 1/600. You would get 1/3 as much blur, but there will still be blur.

Good point. When considering such factors it helps to have an idea about how you would use the photos. If you just post them on the web than the blur isn't such a problem, but for big prints it certainly is.


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550D|Sigma 18-35 1.8 Art|Sigma EX 70-200 OS|Nifty Fifty|Samyang 85 1.4|430 EX II|

  
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