Declining to shoot male boudoir - legal?

cdifoto wrote in post #15588295
And then send them my contact information. I'll shoot anything at least once.

Exactly.

EastBayGirl wrote in post #15588288
This.
The OP wanted a legal question answered that no one seems to have the answer to. Your Dear Blah letter was great.

I don't know if I would specifically call out "Due to anti discrimination law I can't say no" - just say it's something that you don't usually do, and you don't think the quality of work would be up to your usual standards, but if he still wants to hire you then you'll be happy to set up an in-person meeting.

... that still doesn't address the photographer's lack of comfort in doing the shoot - but as businesspeople, sometimes we gotta do things we aren't comfortable doing.

nathancarter wrote in post #15588314
... that still doesn't address the photographer's lack of comfort in doing the shoot - but as businesspeople, sometimes we gotta do things we aren't comfortable doing.

Indeed. Businesses have no feelings. We have to act like businesses, not people, even though we are the business in most situations.

cdifoto wrote in post #15588287
Holy crap if tucked tail and ran every time I bumped into something new, I'd never shoot anything. Everyone has to do their first something at some point in time. I had to do my first wedding at some point. I had to do my first Bat Mitzvah at some point. I had to do my first senior portraits at some point. I had to do my first glamour at some point....

I was nervous as hell every damn time, but pushing through rather than running and hiding is what opened new avenues and helped me figure out what I do and do not like/enjoy/suck at. Heck I still get jitters. It's when I don't that I really have to worry.

This whole "comfort zone" thing is more like a rut.

I never said tucking tail and running away, I said if you feel uncomfortable. A responsible photographer will not jump in over there head just because they do not want to turn down a job they feel they are not ready for.

Without risk this world would go back to the stone ages. Every step in technology involves risks.

I had my first wedding, but it was after many portrait sessions and I now felt ready. I was nervous, but not uncomfortable.

charro callado wrote in post #15587755
Ironically that sounds more like an indictment of law than of his analogies.

:p

As has been said, "Sometimes the law is an ass" (Charles Dickens), but the question asked was not whether everyone agreed that the law was a fine law, but what it requires (in our inexpert opionions).

gonzogolf wrote in post #15588289
And the truth is that if you just decline the work without elaboration, or by giving a plausible simple excuse you can do just that. The case that was bandied about with the commitment ceremony only became an issue because the photographer was dumb enough to make a big point of the discriminating act. He handed the couple a reason and a provocation to move forward with a lawsuit. So just dont be an ass when you turn down work and you wont have any problems.

This reminds me of the movie I watched the other day with Jim Carey. Liar Liar.
If you saw it you know he was a lawyer and you saw the results of having to tell the truth all the time.

I don't like to call it lying, but it's knowing what and how to say things without saying too much.

EastBayGirl wrote in post #15588288
This.
The OP wanted a legal question answered that no one seems to have the answer to. Your Dear Blah letter was great.

The OP had already gotten the legal answer from two lawyers, for crying out loud.

nathancarter wrote in post #15588314
I don't know if I would specifically call out "Due to anti discrimination law I can't say no" - just say it's something that you don't usually do, and you don't think the quality of work would be up to your usual standards, but if he still wants to hire you then you'll be happy to set up an in-person meeting.

... that still doesn't address the photographer's lack of comfort in doing the shoot - but as businesspeople, sometimes we gotta do things we aren't comfortable doing.

I'm not sure why they would be uncomfortable, maybe their not comfortable looking at a mans body? That doesn't matter if they address it the right way. I would give it a try, but if I was uncomfortable I would just tell them I'm not qualified and leave it at that. They can't sue you for that.

RDKirk wrote in post #15588363
The OP had already gotten the legal answer from two lawyers, for crying out loud.

But they werent too sure about the answer either. They assumed that since the service was offered to females, that if a male were to ask about the same service, then they would think there would be grounds for a lawsuit if the service was denied on the basis that she doesnt shoot males.

So I figured I would ask the question here

Curtiss Bryant wrote in post #15588435
But they werent too sure about the answer either. They assumed that since the service was offered to females, that if a male were to ask about the same service, then they would think there would be grounds for a lawsuit if the service was denied on the basis that she doesnt shoot males.

So I figured I would ask the question here

Looks like it ended up being a pretty hot topic.

mguffin wrote in post #15587063
...why do women's haircuts cost more than men...?

Hey, that happens in Australia too.
Sorry, off topic I know.

Normal programming can resume.

Curtiss Bryant wrote in post #15588435
But they werent too sure about the answer either. They assumed that since the service was offered to females, that if a male were to ask about the same service, then they would think there would be grounds for a lawsuit if the service was denied on the basis that she doesnt shoot males.

So I figured I would ask the question here

If a lawyer thinks he has grounds for a lawsuit, he can file suit. You got opinions from two lawyers that they think they could file suit.

That's a different answer from "do you think you will win?"

Curtiss Bryant wrote in post #15586961
Ok.. So I have had an interesting conversation with some people in a boudoir facebook group this morning. Someone had mentioned they were approached by a male to do a boudoir shoot of himself and a later session with his girlfriend. The photographer mentioned she wasnt really comfortable and was wondering how to say "no".

My answer quite honestly would be, while their human forms are similar, male boudoir photography requires a skill set and style which in many ways is vastly different then what I have developed to produce female boudoir photography.

That stated, I personally do not feel that I have the skills, nor the needed style to produce a product which would be acceptable to you or a product which you would be willing to pay for.

I apologize for any inconvenience this might cause, but I would rather turn down the job then offer falsehoods about my skills just to book another job, a job that more than likely will result in an unhappy customer, which is something neither of us wants to happen.

Now in my opinion as a photography specialist and lets face it female boudoir photography is a photographic specialty, that is a non-discriminatory answer based upon the skills I either have or do not have.

This would be no different than going to a civil attorney and asking him to handle a criminal matter, whereupon he would refer you to a criminal attorney, yes he is an attorney but his practice and skills are wrapped around civil law, not criminal law.

Wayne

cdifoto wrote in post #15587285
It was posed as a question. Here's the answer, at least for United Statesburgers:

http://civilrights.fin​dlaw.com …ublic-accommodations.html

It's worth noting the link you cite mentions prohibitions against discrimination based upon race, color, religion, or national origin, but not sex...

And it refers to public accommodations not a business like photography.

Wayne

Assuming the photog has never performed said services for male clientele,


I am sorry, but I am not qualified to provide these kinds of genre for men at this time. I appreciate your inquiry, but until I get the required training/abilities I am not accepting male boudouir clients.