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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 30 Jul 2012 (Monday) 16:44
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Yongnuo YN-622C Controller Trigger

 
amphoto11
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Feb 07, 2013 06:10 |  #1861

This afternoon I'll have a civil wedding.
The good situation to test the 622 on the field ;-)a
I bought a set of 16 alkys.... no rechargeables on the Yongnuo's unit, as Clive suggested.


Canon EOS 5D Mark II gripped, EOS 7D gripped, 5D gripped | Canon 14mm f2.8 L II USM | Canon 24-70mm f2.8 L USM | Canon 70-200mm f4 L IS USM | Canon 85mm f1.8 USM | 2x Metz 50 af-1 | YN 622C | Phottix Strato II Multi | 2x Bowens Esprit DX 500 | Blackrapid DR-1
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sherpa25
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Feb 07, 2013 08:17 |  #1862

oldvultureface wrote in post #15582174 (external link)
You've pretty well summed it up in your post. The one advantage of the 622 is that there are no visible control pre-flashes using off-camera flash. Some people have quick blink reflexes and will close their eyes in response to the pre-exposure flashes.

Optical slave flashes work with the 622's, whereas the control flashes from the popup cause early triggering and no contribution to the exposure.

Also, doing close-up shots with large apertures and higher ISO's, the fire command flash from the 60D's popup, even if it's been disabled from adding to the exposure, will show in the picture.

Thanks.

If no pre-flash is emitted when using the 622, how does the system calculate information (i.e. distance, etc.) for ettl?

Regarding..."Optical slave flashes work with the 622's, whereas the control flashes from the popup cause early triggering and no contribution to the exposure." --- can you pls elaborate a bit more? Do you mean there's a problem with 'early triggering' that the slave optical flashes will fire before exposure, hence no contribution to the exposure?

Another question I had for Clive through PM, perhaps someone can help me understand. In the 622 guides and specs, it says that to use SCS for off-camera, I have to disable wireless on my 60d. Why is this? Isn't the 622 also wireless? Or perhaps I'm confused with the terminology where 'disabling wireless' means putting the system in to optical/radio? Is this logical? Sorry, but this confuses me.
Note: I read too that HSS (like SCS) can only work if wireless is disabled. But these will work with 622's and off-cam flash. So is my understanding correct that 'disabling wireless' when using the 622 activates radio, and hence makes the system think the off-cam flashes are on-cam, so HSS & SCS would work, is this correct?

Thanks.


Canon EOS 60D | Σ17-50 f2.8 | Canon 50mm f1.8 | Canon EF-S 55-250mm f3.5-5.6

  
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tnis0612
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Feb 07, 2013 10:29 |  #1863

I'm not sure if this is even possible, but i'm using 3 tranceivers; 2 on each camera hotshoe with flash on top of each and one off camera on a light stand. My wife and I want to both be able to trigger the off camera flash at a wedding reception but the only way I can figure out how to do it is if we both ALSO trigger each other's flashes.

I tried messing with the group settings and channel settings but I cant figure out how we can each trigger the off camera flash but not each others flash. Is this something simple i'm missing or can it not be done? Thanks!


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oldvultureface
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Feb 07, 2013 11:28 |  #1864

sherpa25 wrote in post #15582499 (external link)
Thanks.

If no pre-flash is emitted when using the 622, how does the system calculate information (i.e. distance, etc.) for ettl?

A preflash is emitted for E-TTL, but the slave control flashes are passed by radio rather than optically.

--- can you pls elaborate a bit more? Do you mean there's a problem with 'early triggering' that the slave optical flashes will fire before exposure, hence no contribution to the exposure?

Early triggering is caused by the control flashes. Again, with the 622 that information is passed by radio rather than optically.




  
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CliveyBoy
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Feb 07, 2013 12:06 |  #1865

tnis0612 wrote in post #15582982 (external link)
I'm not sure if this is even possible, but i'm using 3 tranceivers; 2 on each camera hotshoe with flash on top of each and one off camera on a light stand. My wife and I want to both be able to trigger the off camera flash at a wedding reception but the only way I can figure out how to do it is if we both ALSO trigger each other's flashes.

That's how it is. YN had not considered this scenario in their programming. They now accept this requirement, and have said "watch this space". I imagine that their effort is going into releasing the Nikon version, at the moment.


Clive, and Great G/D Abbie
50D; 580EXII, 430EXII, 550EX, YN685EX; YN-622C II, YN622C-TX and YN560-TX controllers TOYUG II v5.10 YN622 System Guide (external link)
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Trailboy
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Feb 07, 2013 14:06 |  #1866

tnis0612 wrote in post #15582982 (external link)
I'm not sure if this is even possible, but i'm using 3 tranceivers; 2 on each camera hotshoe with flash on top of each and one off camera on a light stand. My wife and I want to both be able to trigger the off camera flash at a wedding reception but the only way I can figure out how to do it is if we both ALSO trigger each other's flashes.

I tried messing with the group settings and channel settings but I cant figure out how we can each trigger the off camera flash but not each others flash. Is this something simple i'm missing or can it not be done? Thanks!

I regard the on-camera group A flash as being a feature rather than a disadvantage. How expensive is it really to get another transceiver and flash so you can both work properly on different channels?




  
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CliveyBoy
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Feb 07, 2013 15:10 |  #1867

An on-top flash is actually in no group. (It is the "Master Flash's" head.) However, it does take its settings from group A.

Except when it is triggered by a hand-held 622 or another camera's 622. Then it is in the Group set on the on-camera 622.

An extra 622+flash on the lightstand is a good solution, but is does cost. It becomes significantly dearer, and more to manage, if there are two light stands and studio strobes involved.

An "Ignore external triggering" switch on the 622 TX would solve the problem.


Clive, and Great G/D Abbie
50D; 580EXII, 430EXII, 550EX, YN685EX; YN-622C II, YN622C-TX and YN560-TX controllers TOYUG II v5.10 YN622 System Guide (external link)
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CliveyBoy
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Feb 08, 2013 00:25 |  #1868

sherpa25 wrote in post #15582499 (external link)
If no pre-flash is emitted when using the 622, how does the system calculate information (i.e. distance, etc.) for ettl?

Flashes driven in E-TTL mode will emit various preflashes - exposure, setup etc. That's Canon's E-TTL requirements.

In Manual mode they won't because, unlike some triggers, YN programmed the 622s that way.

sherpa25 wrote in post #15582499 (external link)
In the 622 guides and specs, it says that to use SCS for off-camera, I have to disable wireless on my 60d. Why is this?

Canon insists on it.

sherpa25 wrote in post #15582499 (external link)
I read too that HSS (like SCS) can only work if wireless is disabled.

Where did you read that? It is wrong. Canon permits HSS when Wireless = enabled.


Clive, and Great G/D Abbie
50D; 580EXII, 430EXII, 550EX, YN685EX; YN-622C II, YN622C-TX and YN560-TX controllers TOYUG II v5.10 YN622 System Guide (external link)
I tried retiring, but gave it up - it's a dead end

  
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sherpa25
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Feb 08, 2013 09:18 |  #1869

CliveyBoy wrote in post #15585734 (external link)
Canon insists on it.

I see, thanks. I was trying to understand the logic behind it and thought there was a publicly known technical explanation, but apparently none.

CliveyBoy wrote in post #15585734 (external link)
Where did you read that? It is wrong. Canon permits HSS when Wireless = enabled.

My bad, sorry. I confused both HSS and 2CS to work only with wireless disabled, but should be only 2CS.


Canon EOS 60D | Σ17-50 f2.8 | Canon 50mm f1.8 | Canon EF-S 55-250mm f3.5-5.6

  
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iituner
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Feb 08, 2013 13:32 as a reply to  @ sherpa25's post |  #1870

Today tested with another 1DX

disappointing result

In wireless mode
E-TTLII with ratios A: B and A: B, C does not work properly (the balance is unpredictable)
Support only: ALL

All other functions work flawlessly.

As far as I know, the exact same problem with PW TT1/TT5

Most asked to Clive:
before other information necessary to clean Canon EOS 1DX from the list of compatible cameras TYPE A
And to add a comment about the problem with the ratio in E-TTL

Sorry for my English.


WWW.YN622.RU (external link) CANON EOS 70D | EF 50mm F/1.4 USM | EF 24-105mm F/4L IS USM | EF-S 10-18mm F/4.5-5.6 IS STM | JINBEI DPIII600 | EINSTEIN E-640+CC/CST/CSXCV/CSR | YONGNUO: YN600EX-RT, YN-E3-RT, YNE3-RX, YN622C-TX, YN622C, RF-605C | SHANNY: SN-E3-RT, SN600C-RT, SN-E3-RF, SN600EX-RF, SN600C-RF, SN600SC, SN600SN, SN910EX-RF | PIXEL X800C (bulb dead)

  
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CliveyBoy
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Feb 08, 2013 15:24 |  #1871

Thanks, iituner. I have added the problem with 1D X to the listing, for the next revision.

I think that it is unlikely that Canon have changed the digital words that control these matters, as that would abandon all existing flashes. It is more likely to be the result of ever faster processors in the camera. Synchronising firing Group A and the camera reading the result, then Group B, then C is critical. The process is an outgoing instruction and synchronised, sequenced responses. Tricky.

Do Manual group levels still work? They are much simpler outgoing instructions, and I would expect them to work flawlessly.

Has this been reported to LiangGC ?


Clive, and Great G/D Abbie
50D; 580EXII, 430EXII, 550EX, YN685EX; YN-622C II, YN622C-TX and YN560-TX controllers TOYUG II v5.10 YN622 System Guide (external link)
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DarkBoxPhotography
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Feb 08, 2013 16:29 as a reply to  @ CliveyBoy's post |  #1872

Apologies if this has been asked already, but I wonder if a set of 622's can also fire 603's. I have 603's that I use with my studio strobes and just ordered 622's for speedlites. However I wonder if I mix the triggers together in my studio, would that work?

622 mounted on camera, 603's on studio strobes, 622 on speedlite (in manual mode)


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CliveyBoy
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Feb 08, 2013 17:23 |  #1873

Adrian - Yes, within limits. See Elv's Flash Havoc site (see post 1822.)

He reports that the RF603 may introduce a lowering of the usable shutter speed.

You can have Cam + 622 + 603 TX on top, and 603 + strobe, and 622 + speeedlite. You will get only 1st curtain sync.

If you use cam + 622 + pc-sync cord to 603 TX, you will get 1st or 2nd curtain sync.


Clive, and Great G/D Abbie
50D; 580EXII, 430EXII, 550EX, YN685EX; YN-622C II, YN622C-TX and YN560-TX controllers TOYUG II v5.10 YN622 System Guide (external link)
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amphoto11
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Feb 08, 2013 17:58 as a reply to  @ CliveyBoy's post |  #1874

Had some on field experience yesterday in a civil wedding.
Everything went good but had some sporadic issues, maybe already documented here many pages ago.

Some issues with HSS...
I was in AV mode, with HSS enabled and manual power on flash. Camera was 5D Mark II.
Strangely, for some reason HSS went off but the camera was able to shoot beyond the x-sync time, so the (obvious) result was a dark banding in the frame.

Another strange behaviour was a overexposed flash blast (almost white frame) while I was in E-TTL mode, the lighting condition were costant...

I was using Alkys in every 622, brand new, voltage is still good today while i'm writing here... about 1.55V on single battery in every 622 unit.


Canon EOS 5D Mark II gripped, EOS 7D gripped, 5D gripped | Canon 14mm f2.8 L II USM | Canon 24-70mm f2.8 L USM | Canon 70-200mm f4 L IS USM | Canon 85mm f1.8 USM | 2x Metz 50 af-1 | YN 622C | Phottix Strato II Multi | 2x Bowens Esprit DX 500 | Blackrapid DR-1
website (external link) | wedding (external link) | facebook page (external link)

  
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CliveyBoy
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Feb 08, 2013 19:04 |  #1875

I assume you were using the Metz 50 AF-1. The behaviour is that of faulty/intermittent contacts.

Clean the 5 contacts on all hotshoes and hotfeet.
Clean the insides of the rails (Ground).
Ensure the foot is pressed firmly forward, and clamp is full engaged.

"HSS went off"? Do you mean the flash LCD display stopped showing the HSS symbol? Bad contacts. That leaves the transmitting 622 in HSS so camera releases shutter block, and the remote 622 firing the flash in x-sync in pre-shutter/supersync mode. = black band.

Typically, this problem tends to polish itself off in use, but unaided it may takes weeks. The Strato's do not make use of the digital codes passing through the pins, so poor contacts are not revealled.


Clive, and Great G/D Abbie
50D; 580EXII, 430EXII, 550EX, YN685EX; YN-622C II, YN622C-TX and YN560-TX controllers TOYUG II v5.10 YN622 System Guide (external link)
I tried retiring, but gave it up - it's a dead end

  
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Yongnuo YN-622C Controller Trigger
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