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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 30 Jul 2012 (Monday) 16:44
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Yongnuo YN-622C Controller Trigger

 
DarkBoxPhotography
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Feb 10, 2013 13:32 as a reply to  @ post 15594904 |  #1906

Thanks Peter, I'll recheck all the connections and settings next time. This time I had limited time and didn't want to troubleshoot, so just replaced them with 603s and continued.


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tpatana
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Feb 10, 2013 15:12 |  #1907

More update with Eneloops, charged ~1 month ago, used for some ~1000-1500 shots before this, maybe total 4-5h usage.

Yesterday ~700 shots, flash didn't fire twice but I'm 90% sure it was flash recharge-issue, not 622.

Before next shoot I'm planning to recharge the batteries, but seem to work fine when the batteries are good condition and fresh-enough charge.


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CliveyBoy
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Feb 12, 2013 02:12 |  #1908

DarkBoxPhotography wrote in post #15594913 (external link)
Thanks Peter, I'll recheck all the connections and settings next time. This time I had limited time and didn't want to troubleshoot, so just replaced them with 603s and continued.

Unlike the 603s, the YN-622s require all pins to make good contact.

In this configuration, it's only the camera end - clean the hotshoe and the 622 hotfoot contacts, including the inside of the rails. (see TOYUG p.21 - linl is in signature.)


Clive, and Great G/D Abbie
50D; 580EXII, 430EXII, 550EX, YN685EX; YN-622C II, YN622C-TX and YN560-TX controllers TOYUG II v5.10 YN622 System Guide (external link)
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Feb 12, 2013 02:40 |  #1909

Robert Welch wrote in post #15594514 (external link)
Thank you, that was my main question. I will read Clive's manual, I skimmed it, but it's time to really read it.

Make sure you read the latest version!

The 5DIII and 7D have the full flash control menus also. The 7D ones are old-style and take two pages, unlike the 6D quick flash control panel. With all of them, you need to turn one Wireless (optical) to be presented with the Firing Group items.

Use Remote mode (not Mix mode) and leave the on-flash settings alone, at least until you have mastered the standard procedures. (OldVultureFace has covered the on-flash setting for FEC.)

Q. #2 is answered in TOYUG. 580EX works normally in E-TTL - with FEC, ratios, etc controlled from camera. The 580EXII works fully in E_TTL, with full control from the camera.

i think that you are mixing settings, and getting erratic behaviour from dirty contacts.

Your added post - the camera menus set either ETTL or Manual in remote mode. Either/or. They can be different in Mix mode, but that makes the camera settings largely ineffective.

You really do need to do your homework and learn how the 622s actually work, and then see how various configurations can be achieved.


Clive, and Great G/D Abbie
50D; 580EXII, 430EXII, 550EX, YN685EX; YN-622C II, YN622C-TX and YN560-TX controllers TOYUG II v5.10 YN622 System Guide (external link)
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F-Stran
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Feb 12, 2013 14:39 |  #1910

I am not sure if this was asked before but I have been looking on the forum and on the net to find out if the yn-622c would allow me to control a yn-560 II flash through the canon flash menu system when used off camera?


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Feb 12, 2013 14:51 |  #1911

No. It is a Class 4 flash - no E-TTL; flash-set manual levels; sync only. See p.5 of TOYUG - link in signature.


Clive, and Great G/D Abbie
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Feb 12, 2013 14:53 |  #1912

Ok. Thank you very much, this helps me in my next flash purchase.


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CliveyBoy
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Feb 12, 2013 17:53 |  #1913

Canon Shutters and Flash Sync
Recent post have shown a need to explain several pertinent aspects of the various syncs.

Canon shutters (mostly) work up and down.
In standby, both curtains are extended to close over the sensor. The first curtain is lowered and the second curtain is raised.


First Curtain Sync – X-sync and longer

1. Second curtain drops open. Sensor still covered.
2. First curtain lifts open.
> Shutter reports both curtains fully open.
> Sync signal sent; flash fires.
3. Second curtain lifts closed at end of exposure. Sensor covered.
4. First curtain drops closed.

Second Curtain Sync

1. Second curtain drops open. Sensor still covered.
2. First curtain lifts open.
> Remains open for 1/30 sec or longer.
> Shutter reports that shutters about to be closed.
> Sync signal sent; flash fires.
3. Second curtain lifts closed at end of exposure. Sensor covered.
4. First curtain drops closed.

HSS High Speed Sync

> Shutter reports it is about to open.
> HSS procedure activated.
1. Second curtain drops open. Sensor still covered.
>Sync signal issued and Flash fires in “Flat Light” modulated voltage mode.
2. First curtain lifts open.
3. Second curtain starts lifting to closed while the first curtain is still rising.
> The moving gap determines the exposure time.
> The sensor is exposed progressively from bottom to top of image.
> Sensor covered.
> Flash stops emitting flat light.
4. First curtain drops closed.

YN Supersync

> Shutter reports it is about to open.
> HSS procedure activated.
1. Second curtain drops. Sensor still covered.
> YN-622 intercepts signal and pre-shutter Sync signal issued.
> Strobe starts firing.
> The exact timing of the start of the burn has not been revealed
> The strobe always fires both peak and tail portions of the burn.
> Depending on the t1 burn time, the strobe will extinguish the tail at some time.
2. First curtain lifts open.
3. Second curtain starts lifting to closed while the first curtain is still rising
> The moving gap determines the exposure time.
> The sensor is exposed progressively.
> Sensor covered.
4. First curtain drops closed.

Comments

As in HSS, the strobe is firing into curtains for part of the time, requiring the flash to last longer than just the exposure time.

Lighting of insufficient duration will light the bottom of the frame. Delayed lighting will appear at the top of the frame. (Due to lens optics, the image is actually inverted on the sensor, but is reverted in the stored image.)

There is no means for supersync to control strobe light levels. The photographer must adjust exposure to correct for the power loss in the technique, and the many stops dropped by the shutter speed.

Supersync requires at least the total time for first curtain to lift open and second curtain to lift shut, plus the shutter-speed setting. The YN-622 does not have a timing adjustment. There is no camera menu item to set pre-shutter timing. There is no LCD on the 622 to enable setting.

How long does an exposure take from start to finish?

It takes the time needed for both shutters to open and then close again, plus the shutter-speed setting, plus a bit of overhead. I can’t find my reference to shutter curtain travel speeds, unfortunately, but it is significant in terms of flash timings. It is constant at all shutter speed settings.

Peter24’s Example

ISO 100 is far to low for a good exposure. I would expect at least ISO 1600.

Alien Bee 1600 - t1 timings say:
1/600 second (at full power) – 1.7 ms
1/300 second (at 1/32 power) – 3.3 ms

The burn time at 1.7 ms is too short to last until the full frame is covered, as shown.

¼ power might make sufficient difference to the burn time to last for the full curtain travel time, but the 2-stop drop will also require compensation.

(Peter has commented that he wants to use the technique in full sun, so raising the ISO is not viable.)


Clive, and Great G/D Abbie
50D; 580EXII, 430EXII, 550EX, YN685EX; YN-622C II, YN622C-TX and YN560-TX controllers TOYUG II v5.10 YN622 System Guide (external link)
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tpatana
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Feb 12, 2013 19:10 |  #1914

CliveyBoy wrote in post #15603404 (external link)
YN Supersync

> Shutter reports it is about to open.
> HSS procedure activated.
1. Second curtain drops. Sensor still covered.
> YN-622 intercepts signal and pre-shutter Sync signal issued.
> Strobe starts firing.
> The exact timing of the start of the burn has not been revealed
> The strobe always fires both peak and tail portions of the burn.
> Depending on the t1 burn time, the strobe will extinguish the tail at some time.
2. First curtain lifts open.
3. Second curtain starts lifting to closed while the first curtain is still rising
> The moving gap determines the exposure time.
> The sensor is exposed progressively.
> Sensor covered.
4. First curtain drops closed.

Lighting of insufficient duration will light the bottom of the frame. Delayed lighting will appear at the top of the frame. (Due to lens optics, the image is actually inverted on the sensor, but is reverted in the stored image.)

Great Scott! Great explanation!

And this makes perfect sense compared to what I saw with my studio strobes when I went from 1/200 to 1/8000 in couple steps.


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Feb 13, 2013 13:59 as a reply to  @ tpatana's post |  #1915

Weird sidenote, and probably of interest to only a few people.

The YN-622c does not fit on the micro four-thirds hotshoe. It seems to be even worse than the RF-603 in this regard. :cry:

Those of you who don't shoot mft probably think I'm insane. But, the mft (and four-thirds) hotshoe for Panasonic and Olympus actually has identical pin/contact placement to the Canon hotshoe--only one less TTL contact. That means the same Yongnuo Canon TTL cable that I use on my 5Dii with my 580EX works on my Panasonic DMC-G3 with my Olympus FL-50 [yes, Panasonic and Olympus share the same hotshoe protocol] and I have TTL, FEC from the camera body, and HSS over the cable.

I wasn't expecting too much more than that over the 622c (assuming it worked at all), given that Panasonic has no fancy flash control menus (or in-house wireless system--Olympus does, though), but I thought at least that iso-compliant hotshoes meant the freaking thing would fit so I could try. But alas, no. Apparently some hotshoes are less ISO compliant than others. :(


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CliveyBoy
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Feb 13, 2013 23:32 |  #1916

I don't have ready means to easily read the thickness of the foot, but the widths are easy. Of course, it is the Canon usage which is of interest. I have no knowledge of whether the Canon shoe/foot complies with the ISO standard.

Widths in millimetres.
YN568EX 18.40
580EXII 18.44
430EXII 18.45
YN622C 18.54
550EX plastic 18.59

So, why do the 622s seem to rotate in the camera shoe? Inadequate clamping of the screw? The rear corners cut off (unlike the 550EX)?


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50D; 580EXII, 430EXII, 550EX, YN685EX; YN-622C II, YN622C-TX and YN560-TX controllers TOYUG II v5.10 YN622 System Guide (external link)
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inkista
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Feb 14, 2013 01:34 as a reply to  @ CliveyBoy's post |  #1917

The MFT fit issue isn't about width as far as I can tell--it's more a depth (front-to-back) or thickness issue. Not sure. I can't tell by eyeballing, more's the pity.


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inkista
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Feb 15, 2013 14:01 as a reply to  @ inkista's post |  #1918

OK, can someone explain the following to me?

I was idly messing about with the YN-622c and Supersync just to see if it worked, and with my 5DMkII and my 580EX, no sweat (I've modded my 580EX so it has a 3.5mm minijack sync port). Works great all the way up to 1/8000s (with the expected gradients). But with my YN-560, no such luck: black bars on any speed above 1/200s.

However, on my 50D, the YN-560's supersync works without any issues all the way up to max. shutter speed (1/8000s).

Is the timing really so different between the 5DMkII and the 50D? Or is it a matter of the YN-560's power output being lower than the 580EX's? Or am I doing something wrong? Mostly just curious.


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CliveyBoy
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Feb 15, 2013 14:28 |  #1919

inkista wrote in post #15613697 (external link)
I was idly messing about with the YN-622c and Supersync just to see if it worked, and with my 5DMkII and my 580EX, no sweat (I've modded my 580EX so it has a 3.5mm minijack sync port). Works great all the way up to 1/8000s (with the expected gradients). But with my YN-560, no such luck: black bars on any speed above 1/200s.

However, on my 50D, the YN-560's supersync works without any issues all the way up to max. shutter speed (1/8000s).

Is the timing really so different between the 5DMkII and the 50D? Or is it a matter of the YN-560's power output being lower than the 580EX's?

How were you connecting the YN560? PC-sync cable with both 5DII and 50D? Did one camera have HSS turned off at the time of test?

And yes, the timings on 5D series has caused problems for radio trigger manufacturers over the years. Does HSS work correctly with the 5DII+622s? If so, it may have been a poor sync cable connection in one test setup.


Clive, and Great G/D Abbie
50D; 580EXII, 430EXII, 550EX, YN685EX; YN-622C II, YN622C-TX and YN560-TX controllers TOYUG II v5.10 YN622 System Guide (external link)
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inkista
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Feb 15, 2013 14:51 |  #1920

CliveyBoy wrote in post #15613781 (external link)
How were you connecting the YN560? PC-sync cable with both 5DII and 50D?

Yes. Same connector. I've also added a 3.5 minijack to the YN-560, and am using a PC-to-3.5mm cable between the 622 and the flash.

Did one camera have HSS turned off at the time of test?

Nope. Both cameras set to HSS.

And yes, the timings on 5D series has caused problems for radio trigger manufacturers over the years. Does HSS work correctly with the 5DII+622s?

Yes. With 622 connected to the 580EX hotshoe, HSS was fine on the 5Dii.

If so, it may have been a poor sync cable connection in one test setup.

Possibly. But I basically just moved the Tx unit from one camera to the other. The connection between the YN-560 and the Rx unit was unchanged. That's why I'm puzzled.


I'm a woman. I shoot with a Fuji X100T, Panasonic GX-7, Canon 5DmkII, and 50D. flickr stream (external link)

  
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Yongnuo YN-622C Controller Trigger
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