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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 16 Feb 2013 (Saturday) 16:07
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Better camera = Better photographer?

 
2ndviolinman
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Feb 19, 2013 20:48 |  #136

Hogloff wrote in post #15629875 (external link)
I would have you know that for the time, he was using a top of the line camera. Wonder why that is?

Because he could to make it do what he needed it to do. Because he knew how.


David
5Dc, 5Dii, Canon 16-35 f/4L IS, 40/2.8 Pancake, 85/1.8, 100/2.8 Macro, 135/2.0L, 200/2.8L, converted 35mm TS, Sigma 50/2.8 Macro, 70/2.8 Macro, Zeiss ZE 21/2.8, Zeiss Contax 28/2.8, 50/1.7 & 85/2.8, Jena 135/3.5, Voigtlander 90mm f/3.5 APO, Canon 28-135.

  
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Hogloff
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Feb 19, 2013 21:23 |  #137
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orionz06 wrote in post #15629897 (external link)
Because there are technical limitations... Some shooters cannot outshoot a rifle from Wal-Mart, others can. I have an Anschutz in my basement that is about $1500 better than I am. Nice to have though, despite my skill. At some point I will be good enough for it.

Exactly, there are limitations with gear. The better the gear, the less the limitations, the more opportunities for great photos. You cannot argue this can you?




  
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Hogloff
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Feb 19, 2013 21:26 |  #138
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2ndviolinman wrote in post #15629914 (external link)
Because he could to make it do what he needed it to do. Because he knew how.

So you shoot with a 5d2 and some L glass and some Zeiss lens. Pretty high caliber. Why is it that you use top gear?




  
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orionz06
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Feb 19, 2013 21:28 |  #139

Hogloff wrote in post #15630038 (external link)
Exactly, there are limitations with gear. The better the gear, the less the limitations, the more opportunities for great photos. You cannot argue this can you?

I don't know who can. Not sure why it is so hard to see that gear is part of the equation.


5D Mark IV~7D+BG-E7/400D~Canon 50mm f/1.8 II~EF 100mm f/2.8 L IS Macro~EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II~EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II~EF 50mm f/1.4 USM~Yongnuo YN-565EX ETTL~Yongnuo YN-E3-RT~Canon 600EX-RT

  
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BIllionfps
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Feb 19, 2013 21:35 |  #140

With any job, electrician, plumber, photographer etc, good gear/tools is important. For a trade you want a guy who knows what they're doing and also have the right tools for the job, not just show up with 1 hammer. Same thing with photographers.


Canon 5D3 | 24L II | 50L | 85 1.8 | 135L

  
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MrPhejEjHmoob
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Feb 19, 2013 21:39 |  #141

Having good gear does help but at the end of the day it's all about how you use it.


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Canon G11, 5D, 5D Mark 2, 50 F/1.4, 16-35 F/2.8L, 24-70 F/2.8L, 70-200 F/2.8L, Canon ST-E3, Canon Speedlite 580EX x2

  
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2ndviolinman
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Feb 19, 2013 22:06 |  #142

Hogloff wrote in post #15630047 (external link)
So you shoot with a 5d2 and some L glass and some Zeiss lens. Pretty high caliber. Why is it that you use top gear?

My friend quit his day job to become a phographer because that is what he wanted to do. He started with Minolta 35mm and Kowa medium format. He got the RB and RZ systems because he was a good enough photographer to afford them and because he needed them to do his job. Yep. I think he could have shot that job with my Nikkormat though.

To be honest, I use top gear because I am good enough at something else to choose gear that helps me take the pictures that I want to take. Yep. No doubt the gear matter to me for what I want to be able to do, which is make big landscape prints.

At one point I was **** to this same photographer friend about my wife's crappy point and shoot camera. My then 2 year old son and our 80lb collie were playing together. It was a picture every 10 seconds, and he was arguing that it's the photographer, not the camera. I said, show me, Mr. Professional. In a half hour of trying with that camera in that situation, he could not time the camera to the shot. I would say 'click' as they came and went, and not once could he anticipate, I think is the word that they use for that psychic ability, to time that camera to the shot.

There is no doubt that the gear matters. There is no doubt that it is necessary to know how to use it. And then, you have to take pictures that are worth taking. If I had Heifetz's violin, I would no way be Heifetz. And to the original question, I would not be a better violinist.

I never looked at the pipe fitting catalog, actually... I mean, who wants to look at pictures of pipe fittings?


David
5Dc, 5Dii, Canon 16-35 f/4L IS, 40/2.8 Pancake, 85/1.8, 100/2.8 Macro, 135/2.0L, 200/2.8L, converted 35mm TS, Sigma 50/2.8 Macro, 70/2.8 Macro, Zeiss ZE 21/2.8, Zeiss Contax 28/2.8, 50/1.7 & 85/2.8, Jena 135/3.5, Voigtlander 90mm f/3.5 APO, Canon 28-135.

  
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Northwoods ­ Bill
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Feb 19, 2013 23:36 |  #143

Thorrulz wrote in post #15618883 (external link)
Personally, I thought the t2i photo's on the OP's flickr page looked better than the 5D MIII pics. No offense to the OP, but I think the GAS has influenced his opinion on his photos anyway.

Not sure how to take that :D

In my defense I am just getting started with the 5d. I got it in late fall after the weather had turned to crap, thus the interest in trying to learn flash photography. I am anxiously awaiting spring and summer so I can give the 5d a real workout

I am amazed at the responses this thread has had. In truth before I got the 5d I wondered if location was an advantage. I am in a beautiful part of the US a place many people travel to every year - especially fall to take photos. I have the option of going back every day for two weeks till I get it right.

Bottom line, I often wonder if my photos are worthy or if I am doing my part to add to all the perfectly useless data that exists in this world.


Bill R
Web:https://www.flickr.com​/photos/whitebirch/ (external link)

  
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tkbslc
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Feb 19, 2013 23:55 |  #144

TSchrief wrote in post #15629750 (external link)
Same argument I apply to guns. Lay a gun and a camera on your coffee table. Wait until the gun jumps up, by itself, and kills someone and the camera jumps up, by itself, and takes a properly exposed, well-framed, interesting photograph. I don't care what tool you are using, the USER is responsible for the results, not the tool. Gun, camera, screw-driver. Tools are just that, tools for the user to accomplish some desired action.

It's a lot easier to hit a target at a distance with a scope and high quality sniper rifle, isn't it? You going to hit a target at 200y with a handgun? riflemen know how important a well crafted gun is. Archers use compound bows with sights. Crafting better hunting weapons was key to the success of certain cultures and lack of tools was responsible for the demise of others. DO you think we would have won WWII with a catapults and swords?

Things like hammers and screwdrivers are such simple machines there is no argument to be made with them. There is little skill involved.


Taylor
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60D | ELPH 330 | iPhone 5s

  
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tkbslc
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Feb 19, 2013 23:57 |  #145

The terrible logic and inability for people to see things in color is getting me riled up. I'm going to bow out.


Taylor
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Gregg.Siam
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Feb 20, 2013 02:48 |  #146

tkbslc wrote in post #15630502 (external link)
The terrible logic and inability for people to see things in color is getting me riled up. I'm going to bow out.

Yep. Myopic points of view from many.

I had better not hear anyone say "glass is more important than the body" as clearly a good photographer can use a kit lens and get the same results as L glass in all conditions and lighting. :rolleyes:

Physics alone dictates that better glass beyond a doubt produces better images. There is no photographer in that equation.

Now, to be objective, there are two factors here. A good photograph and one that looks great technically (for lack of a better term).

For example, The shot of the guy in Tiananmen Square in front of the tank is a great shot. The girl screaming over the body of the dead guy at Kent State is a great shot. Both of those have to do with content and very little to do with the gear.

On the other hand, a lot of the truly magnificent landscapes and other stuff I see just browsing the top shots are also well composed as the aforementioned shots, but they are very clear, have vibrant colors/contrast, and other things that come from good glass, pro/pro-sumer level bodies, and/or good lighting setups. Those are fear dependent to a certain degree. Yes, you need to know how to first get that shot, but there is no way a kit lens can have the sharpness as a 135L.

So if you are going to argue about getting a good image like Tiananmen Square, sure it can be done with anything. But if you want to argue about really clean, sharp images, amazing bokeh, gear is going to be a bigger factor. I'm not saying you can't get great images with say a kit lens, under many conditions some iphone pics look great, but that using better gear does indeed produce exceptional results that would be near impossible to get with cheaper gear.


5D MKIII | 24-105mm f/4 L| 50mm f/1.8 | 600EX-RT [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=bl​ue][FONT="]|
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rusty.jg
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Feb 20, 2013 05:08 |  #147

orionz06 wrote in post #15629783 (external link)
And horses. A dead horse will merely sit there. Someone else needs to beat it.

...or scoop it up and put it in a beef-burger in the UK


to be OR NOT to be = 1 (which is "to be" so that one's cleared up at last ;-)a)
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Tessa
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Feb 20, 2013 05:44 as a reply to  @ rusty.jg's post |  #148

Does a better camera make you a better photographer? Well, the short answer is - no.

If you get top of the line gear, yet use it without trying to improve yourself, then no, you are not in any way better because of said gear. Yes, you might take your usual pictures at higher ISO's, higher resolution, etc, but in the end nothing about YOU has changed. Unless you use that better gear to improve yourself, you will stay the same.

So, no, a better camera does not equal a better photographer.

Think of it this way: if you take an average everyday driver and put him in a Formula One car, does that mean he's suddenly a better driver? No. He's still that same average guy, just in a better car than his usual beat up old Volvo.




  
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BigAl007
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Feb 20, 2013 06:06 |  #149

orionz06 wrote in post #15629897 (external link)
Because there are technical limitations... Some shooters cannot outshoot a rifle from Wal-Mart, others can. I have an Anschutz in my basement that is about $1500 better than I am. Nice to have though, despite my skill. At some point I will be good enough for it.

I don't think I'll ever come close to doing my Anschutz rifle justice again, now my 15 year old daughter, she can shoot! And is getting better all the time. She also seems to have an eye for a good shot with a camera when she wants to as well. Trouble is that most of the time she would just rather shoot stuff with a camera phone and all at those silly angles too. Like a lot of kids these days if there aren't instant perfect results she looses interest, although she dose work very very hard at the shooting. I guess it is like any pursuit in life, to be really successful you need to have enough natural ability combined with a good level of technical training that will allow you to select the correct tools to get the job done most efficiently. That skill will also allow you to know when you may be able to use tools that are not necessarily ideal but will still work, as well as tools that will not work at all for that situation. Just like you would not turn up to shoot in the Olympic Air Rifle competition with a .22 Anschutz target rifle. Or even a 1200 yard rifle competition, even though the bullet from the .22 rifle will travel that far. You always need to use the right tool, or close to it for any job.

Alan


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Azathoth
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Feb 20, 2013 06:20 |  #150

Tessa wrote in post #15630936 (external link)
Think of it this way: if you take an average everyday driver and put him in a Formula One car, does that mean he's suddenly a better driver? No. He's still that same average guy, just in a better car than his usual beat up old Volvo.


Exactly:
www.youtube.com/watch?​v=XbFR6ag-tJM (external link)

And no, Richard Hammond didn't turned into a Michael Shumacher, he struggled to get the car moving and only managed to do 2 laps.


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