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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Glamour & Nude Talk 
Thread started 31 Jan 2013 (Thursday) 11:43
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How much should I be willing to pay for models?

 
phantelope
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Feb 20, 2013 18:02 |  #16

I would think the OP is looking for a model to these shots for fun, maybe build a business or rep out of it? So he's the client AND photographer and a good model will ask for pay or not play.

My last model charged $50 for nude, $70 for erotic (she's a dancer and also does adult movies). I hired her for two hours for a rate in between since I'm not interested in "spread" shots but things definitely went more into erotic than just nude. She was great to work with and I'll hire her again for sure. I got about 1500 photos out of two hours and a LOT of them are keepers (last 8 on my site are her, have many more in many more poses) so I go a lot out of it. She also had to travel to the studio.

Generally I'd say the rate is between $50 and 100, most models negotiate (speaking of MM models, the only source I use with nothing but success so far)

Now, all this is a hobby for me, I don't run a business and don't need to make money off of it (though I'm considering that for the future). If I were a pro and a client wants some photos, they pay for everything (or I'd roll the model cost into the sales price), if a model contacts me I pay nothing but give her photos she can use for what ever (i.e. I give her a full release but she has to credit me). She only gets finished developed photos I select (so I can keep what I want for myself) and never gets the raw files or unedited photos etc.

Also keep in mind that many models say pay only but change that if they see your work and think it fits their port (and there are quite some that are in dire need of good photos) so just ask or send out a casting call, explain what you want and see if a model bites.

Agencies are great, but that's pro level for paid work, from how I understand your post that's not what you're after right now.

Hope that helps?

Oh, I also sometimes hire a model together with a small group of friends and we set up a group shoot of two or three hours. Model rate is shared among us, we have a lot of fun, always learn something and those that don't shoot right now can help with lights or hold a fan or reflector or throw balloons at the model etc :-)


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woodsters
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Feb 23, 2013 17:01 |  #17

I will have to disagree somewhat with phantelope. I don't think you have to pay to get a good model. There are great models that will shoot TF with photographers if they feel they are decent photographers. Since the op is having to ask the question about rates, I will assume he is new to it. Therefore I wouldn't even bother wasting my money on a model. Find those that will shoot for free. Learn more on our shooting and how to deal with models. As I said before, if you are apt to spend money, spend it on a MUA.

1500 shots in 2 hours? That's at a rate of a shot about every 5 seconds. Not how you eve te to know what ou are shooting at a speed like that. And that would be 2 hours straight. No break, no wardrobe chamge. No background change. And then how can ou even o through that many photos to find keepers. I would imagineany of them would look exactly the same. I have hard enough time with an average of 300 photos in a couple hours.


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mrfixitx
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Feb 23, 2013 17:18 |  #18

I personally do TFCD but I am lucky in that I have a fair amount of friends that are willing to model for free. I have not had good luck with MM TFCD, very high flake rate so if you want to avoid the hassle of models flaking out or you need some good photos to build a portfolio that will attract more models then paying may be worth it.


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modachroma
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Feb 25, 2013 19:10 |  #19

Let's say you're paying a model... in this case, the model is making an appearance at a studio and I've reserved a block of time with her.
Since I've paid for her time, the images are mine, meaning there's no obligation to provide her with free images from the shoot, right?


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Mark1
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Feb 25, 2013 20:34 |  #20

It depends on the agreement before hand. Usually at least 1 is expected as a courtesy/thank you. But is not mandatory by any means.


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sspellman
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Feb 25, 2013 20:43 |  #21

Rates are not standard but there are good budget guidelines. Inexperienced models can be hired in many styles for trade only if you can offer great images in return. Experienced fashion and glam models can often be hired for $50-100 an hour, while experienced nude experienced models are often $75-$150 an hour.

These prices should get you better MM and new faces agency models in your area for non-comercial work. Large clients, major agencies, or full advertising work may require higher rates.

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ATP
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Feb 26, 2013 17:37 |  #22

modachroma wrote in post #15651803 (external link)
Let's say you're paying a model... in this case, the model is making an appearance at a studio and I've reserved a block of time with her.
Since I've paid for her time, the images are mine, meaning there's no obligation to provide her with free images from the shoot, right?

I agree and this is how I see it.
If I paid (CASH) for your time then you are JUST a model/subject for me to shoot. If you book me and pay me, well thats an obvious. But if TFP I think we all know she should get images as well


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jameskim
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Mar 06, 2013 11:54 |  #23

I've found that 50/hour is standard.


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dsmPhotoCompany
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Mar 15, 2013 22:21 |  #24

modachroma wrote in post #15651803 (external link)
Let's say you're paying a model... in this case, the model is making an appearance at a studio and I've reserved a block of time with her.
Since I've paid for her time, the images are mine, meaning there's no obligation to provide her with free images from the shoot, right?

There are a lot of schmucks out there that not only pay the model - but give them tons of images and even prints too.

Working with models directly and not thru an agency is generally a PITA unless they are people you have a great working relationship with. Aka, a muse.


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IVOlution
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Mar 19, 2013 21:23 |  #25

Obviously the price depends on what kind of photoshoot it is but it also depends on the model realise form and the royalties.
When I pay models it is normally for the full commercial realise, which is important if you plan to sell the images.


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woodsters
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Mar 27, 2013 01:03 |  #26

As i've mentioned before, i've never paid a model. But I am planning a shoot which will include things outside the norm of what I shoot. So I am looking at paying. I ask them what their rates are and let them know that I will be choosing only one model for the shoot and that rates will be one of the things that will make my decision. I am afterall shopping for a decent to good deal. Taking that into consideration, I have received rates of "whatever you think is fair" to over $150/hr plus gas....There were some in betweens in there. I refuse to pay gas money. The model needs to figure in their own gas. They are driving to work. Its one thing if i were going to fly someone in. But I refuse to pay gas money. I had one girl that lives about 160 miles away tell me it would take a couple tanks of gas. WTF kind of car does she drive that gets only 160 miles to a tank of gas? I feel they are going to a job and its their responisiblity to get there. Just as if they work at McDonalds. McDonalds pays them a salary. Not salary +gas money.


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John
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Mar 27, 2013 12:59 |  #27

woodsters wrote in post #15760313 (external link)
As i've mentioned before, i've never paid a model. But I am planning a shoot which will include things outside the norm of what I shoot. So I am looking at paying. I ask them what their rates are and let them know that I will be choosing only one model for the shoot and that rates will be one of the things that will make my decision. I am afterall shopping for a decent to good deal. Taking that into consideration, I have received rates of "whatever you think is fair" to over $150/hr plus gas....There were some in betweens in there. I refuse to pay gas money. The model needs to figure in their own gas. They are driving to work. Its one thing if i were going to fly someone in. But I refuse to pay gas money. I had one girl that lives about 160 miles away tell me it would take a couple tanks of gas. WTF kind of car does she drive that gets only 160 miles to a tank of gas? I feel they are going to a job and its their responisiblity to get there. Just as if they work at McDonalds. McDonalds pays them a salary. Not salary +gas money.

Any model asking for compensation for time and gas is probably trying to find an excuse to actually make the trip worthwhile for them and/or doesn't model full time.

Any model that asks for (insert ridiculously high rate here) to me, I just take as "I'm not interested in your shoot but this is what it would take to get me interested" rate. I don't have any issue with that cause that's honestly what I do as well if a model reached out to me that I didn't really want to work with.


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sandpiper
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Mar 27, 2013 15:25 |  #28

woodsters wrote in post #15760313 (external link)
As i've mentioned before, i've never paid a model. But I am planning a shoot which will include things outside the norm of what I shoot. So I am looking at paying. I ask them what their rates are and let them know that I will be choosing only one model for the shoot and that rates will be one of the things that will make my decision. I am afterall shopping for a decent to good deal. Taking that into consideration, I have received rates of "whatever you think is fair" to over $150/hr plus gas....There were some in betweens in there. I refuse to pay gas money. The model needs to figure in their own gas. They are driving to work. Its one thing if i were going to fly someone in. But I refuse to pay gas money. I had one girl that lives about 160 miles away tell me it would take a couple tanks of gas. WTF kind of car does she drive that gets only 160 miles to a tank of gas? I feel they are going to a job and its their responisiblity to get there. Just as if they work at McDonalds. McDonalds pays them a salary. Not salary +gas money.

I'm sorry, I just don't understand your issue here. For one thing, you ARE paying for the gas, whether they build it in to a single price or charge it separately.

As for the McDonalds analogy that doesn't work either. No, they won't pay their salary and gas money to work at their branch, but if they are sent 160 miles away to cover at another branch for a day, they will cover their transportation. I never got travel costs to go to work, but if I had to do a trip, then I did. that is normal practice with most businesses.

Have you told them how long the shoot will be? If they know it is a 4 hour shoot, they can give you a total figure including travel. If they don't know, and are quoting an hourly rate, then how much do they add to an hourly rate for expenses. If they are going to have to travel 160 miles that will take them quite some time, and use a fair bit of gas (although not two tankfuls unless coming by motorbike). Do they take their hourly rate and add the total cost to it, so you pay it per hour? Do they split the cost by 4 and add it to the rate, hoping that a 4 hour shoot will cover their cost?

If they don't charge for travel, a model doing a two hour shoot at a local studio ten minutes away gets their full hourly rate, one doing a shoot 60 miles away may spend the entire fee on travel, so get nothing and take 5 hours to do the job, instead of 2, due to the amount of time travelling.

So, if you ask a model for a rate to do a 4 hour shoot 100 miles away, one may build the cost in and say "$250", another may say "I charge $40 per hour and a 200 mile round trip will cost $50 for gas". Would you really "refuse to pay gas money" and go with the model at $250 in favour of the one at $210 ($160 plus gas) all else being equal?

Besides, there is an advantage to knowing an hourly rate, rather than an "all-in" total. If you decide to carry on for another hour, the second model will be $40 the first may just divide the $250 by 4 and charge you an extra $62.50

If a model is charging a bit more than actual travel expense, that isn't necessarily wrong either. If they are travelling 4 hours to do a 2 hour shoot, it is only fair that they make a bit extra to cover the 4 hours time spent.

At the end of the day though, who cares how they quote a fee? You are paying for their time, and their expenses, however it is quoted. So just look at the bottom line. If cost is a factor, go with the one who will charge you the least. Does it matter if that is described as "$210" or "$160 plus $50 gas", you pay the same amount regardless.




  
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IVOlution
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Mar 27, 2013 19:01 |  #29

sandpiper wrote in post #15762437 (external link)
I'm sorry, I just don't understand your issue here. For one thing, you ARE paying for the gas, whether they build it in to a single price or charge it separately.

As for the McDonalds analogy that doesn't work either. No, they won't pay their salary and gas money to work at their branch, but if they are sent 160 miles away to cover at another branch for a day, they will cover their transportation. I never got travel costs to go to work, but if I had to do a trip, then I did. that is normal practice with most businesses.

Have you told them how long the shoot will be? If they know it is a 4 hour shoot, they can give you a total figure including travel. If they don't know, and are quoting an hourly rate, then how much do they add to an hourly rate for expenses. If they are going to have to travel 160 miles that will take them quite some time, and use a fair bit of gas (although not two tankfuls unless coming by motorbike). Do they take their hourly rate and add the total cost to it, so you pay it per hour? Do they split the cost by 4 and add it to the rate, hoping that a 4 hour shoot will cover their cost?

If they don't charge for travel, a model doing a two hour shoot at a local studio ten minutes away gets their full hourly rate, one doing a shoot 60 miles away may spend the entire fee on travel, so get nothing and take 5 hours to do the job, instead of 2, due to the amount of time travelling.

So, if you ask a model for a rate to do a 4 hour shoot 100 miles away, one may build the cost in and say "$250", another may say "I charge $40 per hour and a 200 mile round trip will cost $50 for gas". Would you really "refuse to pay gas money" and go with the model at $250 in favour of the one at $210 ($160 plus gas) all else being equal?

Besides, there is an advantage to knowing an hourly rate, rather than an "all-in" total. If you decide to carry on for another hour, the second model will be $40 the first may just divide the $250 by 4 and charge you an extra $62.50

If a model is charging a bit more than actual travel expense, that isn't necessarily wrong either. If they are travelling 4 hours to do a 2 hour shoot, it is only fair that they make a bit extra to cover the 4 hours time spent.

At the end of the day though, who cares how they quote a fee? You are paying for their time, and their expenses, however it is quoted. So just look at the bottom line. If cost is a factor, go with the one who will charge you the least. Does it matter if that is described as "$210" or "$160 plus $50 gas", you pay the same amount regardless.

True...I agree on this.


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woodsters
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Mar 28, 2013 00:50 |  #30

I think the model should figure in her own travel expenses, gas money or whatever you wanna call it. I'm not referring either to me seeking out a model, I'm referring to models answering casting calls. If I have two models answering a casting call and one is local and the other is far away and ther rates are the same then I'm gonna hire the one better suited for the shoot. But if the one that is far away tells me she needs gas money, then I will probably go with the local girl. Of course dependent upon there's not a lot of difference between the two. The model is in business and she should act like she is. I'm sorry but to have a model tell you my rate is x amount plus I'm gonna need gas money sounds like giving taxi fare to a hooker. If they are answering a casting call, the its their responsibility to get there. I don't care ow they do it. It's their problem of how much it will cost them. They should include that in on their rates. I also will not necessarily pay what ther asking rate is. I will negotiate it of I think it's too high. Perhaps this is my thinking since I don't pay models. I don't shoot nudes normally and am more tha happy to do TF work. This is fun for me. But in this latest project that I working on, I am offering pay due to it being nude and erotic somewhat. I've had numerous interested in it. You will be surprised how much they will negotiate with you. And as I mentioned about the girl saying a couple gas tanks for a 320 mile round trip. You gotta be kidding me. Figure it I to your rate. I'm shopping and the best product for the est price is were my money will go.


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How much should I be willing to pay for models?
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