So I handled both the 6D and D600 today...

...And came away with it realizing neither body is what I desire

First off the 6D + 24-105, Now I gotta say, I was pretty impressed by this thing, the AF was gutsy, fast and seemed very accurate...and it was a real pleasure to handle my old friend the 24-105 again.... it certainly felt very nice in the hand and very "premium" but yet I still appreciated the weight difference compared to the 7D... But the downsides were quick, the AF selection joypad, as i mentioned before just isnt in a good place for my hand.. This time it didnt cause me as much pain (still hurt a bit tho) but I still felt like i was about to drop the thing everytime i went to change the focus point and it just felt "clunky" to operate... Oh! the quiet shutter sounds nice...

Second up obviously was the D600 and 24-85... Again, the AF was really quick, snappy and precise, I couldnt really see a HUGE difference in the store between the two of them, But i did find one big problem.. the ergonomics just didnt work for me, At all... the joypad position was off for my hand and pressing it just wasnt comfortable in a "This kinda hurts my hand" way...worse than the 6D in fact... the camera just didnt "meld" with me

Now this utterly shocked me.. I know for instance between the D7000 and 60D I prefer the D7000's ergonomics, and historically Im not a "Nikon" or "Canon" ergonomics lover (It depends on what models we are talking about..) I really loved the D300 when I was considering one, and I adore my 7D to pieces.. my 30D was great and I've happily shot away with a D3100 with no major complaints... I can generally pick a camera up and go with little to no problems operating it effectively, and I can pretty rapidly tell if a control is going to be a problem

Something I did notice on both cameras which still baffles me was the fact the viewfinder really didnt seem any larger than my 7D, I do not know why.. it didnt seem any "easier" to see through compared to the 7D.... I even double checked the stores 7D and really struggled to see a big meaningful difference... The viewfinders werent bad by any measure, But i was expecting something more I guess...

So what did I learn? One I was happy I jumped on the deal I got and ordered myself a laptop as a bday gift instead of a D600 or 6D.. But more importantly that neither of these bodies is right for me right now and its alright to pass on them, I guess I'm silly because I care about ergonomics over the IQ advantages either camera offers, I'll just bide my time and wait for the upcoming 7D Mark II and see if that can tempt me away from my 7D

Or failing that the 5DIII will come down in price more

1D MK III

fiveohmike wrote in post #15716722
1D MK III

Nah.. Id love a 1 series, Dont get me wrong on that, But I like the option of leaving my grip home and I dont feel it offers enough over my 7D

Now, a 1Ds Mark II.. That is an option

But hey no rush, the gist of this was I'm simply not seeing enough to upgrade.. I've been running a 7D since it came out... its still going strong even after.. I think im nearing 70k at this point... Id love to go full frame but not if i compromise handling and feel...

You did the right thing. Rather than listening to all the overhype on the new cameras and jumping in quickly with the crowd, you examined both and decided on none. Good for you. There will always be a full frame waiting if you feel you need one, but just jumping on the bandwagon would have been a dumb decision.

KenjiS wrote in post #15716729
Nah.. Id love a 1 series, Dont get me wrong on that, But I like the option of leaving my grip home and I dont feel it offers enough over my 7D

Now, a 1Ds Mark II.. That is an option

But hey no rush, the gist of this was I'm simply not seeing enough to upgrade.. I've been running a 7D since it came out... its still going strong even after.. I think im nearing 70k at this point... Id love to go full frame but not if i compromise handling and feel...

I miss my 7D a lot! It was my first ....ummm... not Rebel series camera. I only sold it to fund my 5D MK II. I just got the 1D III being delivered tomorrow though, but the 7D will always hold a place in my photog heart lol.

To me the only upgrade from a 7D would be a 5D III or 1D IV/x (I consider the 1D III a side grade ish, but I wanted the AF + 10FPS).

The 7D is hard to beat, especially for the price. For the body, use what you are comfortable with and save the money for glass

Kenji mate!

You and I have "known" each other in here for quite a while now, so reading your thread made a laugh up my coffee!

Looking through your Flickr, a very high percentage of what you shoot is your super-gorgeous dog, what you eat, what you drink, local cars and local flowers.

So why are you even looking at a new body?!

Stop it, get out there, and shoot a wider variety of subjects using what you already know is an extremely excellent body!

Regards,

Simon

[PS: I've now replaced one of my 7Ds with a 6D, and it's a gem! Takes me back to when I didn't stress out so much about the "how" to get a camera to take a photo, and instead thought more about "what" I was photographing!]

skygod44 wrote in post #15716786
Kenji mate!

You and I have "known" each other in here for quite a while now, so reading your thread made a laugh up my coffee!

Looking through your Flickr, a very high percentage of what you shoot is your super-gorgeous dog, what you eat, what you drink, local cars and local flowers.

So why are you even looking at a new body?!

Stop it, get out there, and shoot a wider variety of subjects using what you already know is an extremely excellent body!

Regards,

Simon

[PS: I've now replaced one of my 7Ds with a 6D, and it's a gem! Takes me back to when I didn't stress out so much about the "how" to get a camera to take a photo, and instead thought more about "what" I was photographing!]

Right, his pictures are so phenomenal that he could shoot with anything and have it looks so fantastic.

skygod44 wrote in post #15716786
Kenji mate!

You and I have "known" each other in here for quite a while now, so reading your thread made a laugh up my coffee!

Looking through your Flickr, a very high percentage of what you shoot is your super-gorgeous dog, what you eat, what you drink, local cars and local flowers.

So why are you even looking at a new body?!

Stop it, get out there, and shoot a wider variety of subjects using what you already know is an extremely excellent body!

Regards,

Simon

[PS: I've now replaced one of my 7Ds with a 6D, and it's a gem! Takes me back to when I didn't stress out so much about the "how" to get a camera to take a photo, and instead thought more about "what" I was photographing!]

Psst, keep in mind everything where i live has been DEAD for the last 6 months now and i normally take a lot of photos of flowers and birds

We still have snow on the ground here, its 27 degrees out, Theres a reason my subjects have been slightly... limited... lol

KenjiS wrote in post #15716716
...And came away with it realizing neither body is what I desire

First off the 6D + 24-105, Now I gotta say, I was pretty impressed by this thing, the AF was gutsy, fast and seemed very accurate...and it was a real pleasure to handle my old friend the 24-105 again.... it certainly felt very nice in the hand and very "premium" but yet I still appreciated the weight difference compared to the 7D... But the downsides were quick, the AF selection joypad, as i mentioned before just isnt in a good place for my hand.. This time it didnt cause me as much pain (still hurt a bit tho) but I still felt like i was about to drop the thing everytime i went to change the focus point and it just felt "clunky" to operate... Oh! the quiet shutter sounds nice...

Second up obviously was the D600 and 24-85... Again, the AF was really quick, snappy and precise, I couldnt really see a HUGE difference in the store between the two of them, But i did find one big problem.. the ergonomics just didnt work for me, At all... the joypad position was off for my hand and pressing it just wasnt comfortable in a "This kinda hurts my hand" way...worse than the 6D in fact... the camera just didnt "meld" with me

Now this utterly shocked me.. I know for instance between the D7000 and 60D I prefer the D7000's ergonomics, and historically Im not a "Nikon" or "Canon" ergonomics lover (It depends on what models we are talking about..) I really loved the D300 when I was considering one, and I adore my 7D to pieces.. my 30D was great and I've happily shot away with a D3100 with no major complaints... I can generally pick a camera up and go with little to no problems operating it effectively, and I can pretty rapidly tell if a control is going to be a problem

Something I did notice on both cameras which still baffles me was the fact the viewfinder really didnt seem any larger than my 7D, I do not know why.. it didnt seem any "easier" to see through compared to the 7D.... I even double checked the stores 7D and really struggled to see a big meaningful difference... The viewfinders werent bad by any measure, But i was expecting something more I guess...

So what did I learn? One I was happy I jumped on the deal I got and ordered myself a laptop as a bday gift instead of a D600 or 6D.. But more importantly that neither of these bodies is right for me right now and its alright to pass on them, I guess I'm silly because I care about ergonomics over the IQ advantages either camera offers, I'll just bide my time and wait for the upcoming 7D Mark II and see if that can tempt me away from my 7D

Or failing that the 5DIII will come down in price more

viewfinder is overated unless you look through the VF of some of the older croppers and even then you eyes adjust

ed rader wrote in post #15716812
viewfinder is overated unless you look through the VF of some of the older croppers and even then you eyes adjust

Or the cheaper ones, the D3100 is a little rough to really compose with.. its usable however...

KenjiS wrote in post #15716716
Something I did notice on both cameras which still baffles me was the fact the viewfinder really didnt seem any larger than my 7D, I do not know why...

If it is the same size, and from briefly handling a 7D in a shop I think it might be close, it can only be because the 7D has a dimmer viewfinder or a less accurate focussing screen. There is no getting around the physics - it's gathering fewer photons because the image area is only 1/2.56 the size.

(Assuming all cameras use good quality pentaprisms etc.)

KenjiS wrote in post #15716716
Something I did notice on both cameras which still baffles me was the fact the viewfinder really didnt seem any larger than my 7D, I do not know why.. it didnt seem any "easier" to see through compared to the 7D.... I even double checked the stores 7D and really struggled to see a big meaningful difference... The viewfinders werent bad by any measure, But i was expecting something more I guess...

I also had this feeling when I looked through a 6D viewfinder in BestBuy. I was expecting to kind of get the feeling I got when I got my first 40 inch flat screen, LOL.

My tip is a 1DsmkIII, less than the price of the 5DmkIII Skip the 1DIII, some work well, some don't.
I like my 5DIII, all purpose but not really tuned for one thing or the other.
Back to my point. If you need 7D speed then you will have to chose a 1D, having a 1.3crop helps for wildlife. But you do not want a grip to be permanent. So keep the 7D, use it until the shutter drops out and by then there should be a 7DmkII

melcat wrote in post #15717317
If it is the same size, and from briefly handling a 7D in a shop I think it might be close, it can only be because the 7D has a dimmer viewfinder or a less accurate focussing screen. There is no getting around the physics - it's gathering fewer photons because the image area is only 1/2.56 the size.

(Assuming all cameras use good quality pentaprisms etc.)

The 7D's viewfinder is a bit of a special snowflake, Its actually a very bright viewfinder and uses the same prism as the 1D Mark III believe it or not, In fact from my memory it was very shockingly close in size to the viewfinder used on the 1D Mark III (APS-H)

The focusing screen is VERY bright (At the cost of only showing depth of field equal to f/4) and the view is more magnified than the xxD line or something like the D7000...

So its probubly very likely that its just that the 7D has an absolutely exceptional viewfinder for an APS-C camera.. when I picked up other cams and then looked into the 6D/D600 there was a night and day difference, Only the 7D showed a small difference

And JCH, Yeah that was the feeling I was expecting as well..

NeilyB, I could live without 8fps so long as my AF was quick and accurate and the camera itself responded well, I dont shoot much beyond ISO1600 (Rarely into 3200) and my gains from getting another camera were more related to "I want my Sigmalux to be an actual 50mm lens instead of hacking off the edges and calling it 80" than really needing better high ISO and that.. Improvements to IQ where I shoot are always appreciated of course (Since if it gives me say.. Better color, more contrast, a bit more DR something like that I'm not going to say no because it gives me more options... and hey, if i have better high ISO then maybe it would give me the option to stop my lens down more sometimes for more depth of field, Again, Options)

I think you would flip on your head if you saw what you could do with the 6d at higher iso

I think a lot of people agree with you that ergonomics matters! I too felt the D600 and in a short time came to really hate the way it felt. We all see that you are on a collision course with a 5d3