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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 15 Mar 2013 (Friday) 19:16
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petition to have canon upgrade 100-400 or create new lens

 
TSchrief
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Mar 16, 2013 17:56 |  #46
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The lens and/or the body are not your problem. Examine your technique. Buy a good tripod and develop some patience. Using a 100-400L and a tripod, I've shot horses from far enough away that heat waves and atmospheric disturbances ruin the shots. No camera or lens can compensate for those things. Get closer. Work with what you have. The 100-400L is a fine lens.

The next step up (for me) from the 100-400L is the 600 f/4 II. I just can't remember where I put that spare $14,000.


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Mar 16, 2013 17:56 |  #47

ZWDB08 wrote in post #15722357 (external link)
Obviously the people here are either all pro's or do not shoot anything that requires extension? First off I don't know where some people get there experI'm heretise from? For example and I will say this one last time. Nikon's 80-400 is a 5.6, and it has been redesigned, let me repeat THE LENS not a body, has been revamped to allow autofocus with non pro bodies. These are already existing bodies. Now if Nikon can do this and sell it for under $2500 , then why can't canon?
Has anyone tried using a petition to get there attention?
Also judging by replies to my request I judging by equipment users that posted use very few are using any long lenses. Now to the English major that missed my whole point, and focused on grammer which by the way I'm using my phone to post this. And then f I want end an English lesson I would have asked you pompous ass. My direct point is that it's a crying shame that many people spend hard earned money over many years of using because you bought into a system. Only to have same said company not show any interest in the millions of non pro photags that purchase their said gear in good faith.
Well I now see that canon users just don't care or feel know interest in standing up , and hope a large corporation would listen to it's users. The 100-400 is awesome no doubt love it. Does it sell ? Sure , does that mean its awesome ,or just popular because there is nothing else in a zoom that is made by canon?
Seems to me sad Nikon seems to be producing equipment for its non pro users. I will soon be switching , and not supporting a company that wants your money, but fails to offer high quality ,yet affordable gear for the regular guy...and no it doesn't have to be a 4.0 to allow auto focus with an extender, not even close that's another myth we all buy into , so we will keep locked into a company that fails to provide us with products that are affordable and good for a novice on a budget. For many of us maybe their current offerings are more than enough? If so why is it for many, many years now there are posts that pop up by people asking should I buy a 50-500 sigma, or 150-500 sigma or 200-500 tamron and the 100-400l ..and these posts always say something like how is the focus, do they have is, and most importantly image quality at the long end , wide open....why are these things constantly being asked, if there is no need for a canon mount lens that reaches to 500mm. And these offerings are often less than $2000... So its doable.....so why is it no pt being done by canon ? That's the question isn't it .

Well it's Your question. Throwing around accusations of wealth and bias toward pro photographers, and getting angry because not everyone is as concerned as you about extending the range of a 400mm lens does not help your case. People if you haven't noticed are often different with different needs. My longest lens in 200 .... I have no need or desire for 400 let alone more. Why is it so hard for you to accept that others with this lens might be more than happy with what it does already?


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ZWDB08
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Mar 16, 2013 18:03 |  #48

OK , this is become a very passionate topic for me, and maybe I am off base? Maybe my petition is wrong or off... I was hoping that with a firmware update ,which is like a computer upgrade , it alters how info is processed . you can use the same optics, same mechanics, but allows it to process things differently. This is similar in theory like taping the pins. In theory when you tape the pins it alters the internal workings of lens and camera. Its all done through how the camera interprets the info sent back and forth through the connections. You should be able to achieve the same effect through just altering the programming. Anyhow maybe most users are correct maybe the 100-400 is fine as it is... OK assuming so why doesn't canon just come up with a 100-500 5.6 /6.3. L IS for under $2600... That she,ms reasonable a price and is what many of us thought canon was doing when they came up with the 200-400 with extender built in.but at10,000 who are they gearing this towards? If sigma can design and sell a 150-500 is that has 4 stops is and is a 500 with an ham focus motor, descent glass for under a grand.. Why can't canon at least try to come up with a 100--500 l is for less than$2500 considering the 100-400 is about $1600 and has a large markup . I would pounce all over a 100-500 5.6/ 6.3 L Is if it was less than even$2800 .... Because with an extender and 100-400 your right at /$2000.
So maybe my petition should be to make a 100-500 for less than $2600, instead of revamping the 100-400




  
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ed ­ rader
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Mar 16, 2013 18:08 |  #49

ZWDB08 wrote in post #15722417 (external link)
OK , this is become a very passionate topic for me, and maybe I am off base? Maybe my petition is wrong or off... I was hoping that with a firmware update ,which is like a computer upgrade , it alters how info is processed . you can use the same optics, same mechanics, but allows it to process things differently. This is similar in theory like taping the pins. In theory when you tape the pins it alters the internal workings of lens and camera. Its all done through how the camera interprets the info sent back and forth through the connections. You should be able to achieve the same effect through just altering the programming. Anyhow maybe most users are correct maybe the 100-400 is fine as it is... OK assuming so why doesn't canon just come up with a 100-500 5.6 /6.3. L IS for under $2600... That she,ms reasonable a price and is what many of us thought canon was doing when they came up with the 200-400 with extender built in.but at10,000 who are they gearing this towards? If sigma can design and sell a 150-500 is that has 4 stops is and is a 500 with an ham focus motor, descent glass for under a grand.. Why can't canon at least try to come up with a 100--500 l is for less than$2500 considering the 100-400 is about $1600 and has a large markup . I would pounce all over a 100-500 5.6/ 6.3 L Is if it was less than even$2800 .... Because with an extender and 100-400 your right at /$2000.
So maybe my petition should be to make a 100-500 for less than $2600, instead of revamping the 100-400

i think the problem is you are confusing canon for burger king :D!


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TSchrief
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Mar 16, 2013 18:11 |  #50
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I would like Canon to design all their photographic equipment specifically for me. While they are at it, do you think I could talk them into selling it for a price I could afford?

A bit OT, do you realize that the entire point of these fora is to communicate with others? Please consider doing a bit of proof-reading and editing before you hit SEND. It is hard to pull the meaning out of rambling, randomly punctuated, mis-typed posts.


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Mar 16, 2013 18:12 |  #51

I think if Canon made a 200-400/5.6L with newer IS and USM motor, most of us would buy it. I guess, they might as well sell faster lenses with bigger margins than cheap super telephotos to novice users like myself. So they don't really care.


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Mar 16, 2013 18:27 |  #52

ZWDB08 wrote in post #15722417 (external link)
OK , this is become a very passionate topic for me, and maybe I am off base? Maybe my petition is wrong or off... I was hoping that with a firmware update ,which is like a computer upgrade , it alters how info is processed . you can use the same optics, same mechanics, but allows it to process things differently. This is similar in theory like taping the pins. In theory when you tape the pins it alters the internal workings of lens and camera. Its all done through how the camera interprets the info sent back and forth through the connections. You should be able to achieve the same effect through just altering the programming. Anyhow maybe most users are correct maybe the 100-400 is fine as it is... OK assuming so why doesn't canon just come up with a 100-500 5.6 /6.3. L IS for under $2600... That she,ms reasonable a price and is what many of us thought canon was doing when they came up with the 200-400 with extender built in.but at10,000 who are they gearing this towards? If sigma can design and sell a 150-500 is that has 4 stops is and is a 500 with an ham focus motor, descent glass for under a grand.. Why can't canon at least try to come up with a 100--500 l is for less than$2500 considering the 100-400 is about $1600 and has a large markup . I would pounce all over a 100-500 5.6/ 6.3 L Is if it was less than even$2800 .... Because with an extender and 100-400 your right at /$2000.
So maybe my petition should be to make a 100-500 for less than $2600, instead of revamping the 100-400

I'd snip this but it would take too much work...

Um, you can bend 1s and 0s to your will all day long (vis a vis firmware upgrades) but you can't bend physics.

No matter how many bells and whistles you hang on an f/5.6 lens, it simply will never perform or behave like an f/4 lens.

And with that natural speed increase comes a cost.

Sorry...


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sandpiper
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Mar 16, 2013 18:47 |  #53

ZWDB08 wrote in post #15722357 (external link)
Obviously the people here are either all pro's or do not shoot anything that requires extension? First off I don't know where some people get there experI'm heretise from? For example and I will say this one last time. Nikon's 80-400 is a 5.6, and it has been redesigned, let me repeat THE LENS not a body, has been revamped to allow autofocus with non pro bodies. These are already existing bodies. Now if Nikon can do this and sell it for under $2500 , then why can't canon?

So, are you saying that the lens can somehow make a camera, that cannot focus at f/8, suddenly focus at f/8 ? If so, how does it do it?

The newest generation of Nikon bodies, such as the D7100, can focus at f/8 which allows the user to fit a TC to an f/5.6 lens and still have AF, but this is the BODY which allows this. Stick that combo on an older camera and it won't work, as the camera requires f/5.6

That Nikon lens is exactly the same speed as the Canon one (f/5.6) and will need to obey the same laws of physics. Can you link to where it is shown that you can use it at 400mm, with a TC, on a body that requires f/5.6 and still maintain normal AF.

The only way I could see it managing to get the camera to AF would be to have the electronics report the wrong aperture and fool the camera into thinking it still has an f/5.6 aperture to work with. This is no different to using a non-reporting TC on the 100-400L, and will result in the same poor performance. Yes, the camera will attempt to AF, but because it is beyond its design limits it will struggle and deliver subpar results. I really cannot see Nikon deliberately designing a lens to overide the lockout they put in to prevent the camera attempting to focus in a situation where it will struggle. It will just make them look bad.

But, I am prepared to admit I am wrong if you can post the link.

ZWDB08 wrote in post #15722357 (external link)
.and no it doesn't have to be a 4.0 to allow auto focus with an extender, not even close that's another myth we all buy into ,

So, in that case, just tape the pins and shoot away with your 100-400L, or use a non reporting TC. You have exactly what you want, if that is just a myth.

Have you ever tried it? Yes, you can make the camera attempt to AF and, if the subject is in really good sunlight, it will make a decent stab at it. But you will get frustrated by the slow speed and possible hunting in less than great light. Oh, and forget AI servo keeping up with birds in flight.

Unlike you, I have tried it (with a 40D and a 5D on a 100-400L) The 5D did a better job than the 40D, but still sucked, and I went to manual focus to get the job done.

ZWDB08 wrote in post #15722357 (external link)
If so why is it for many, many years now there are posts that pop up by people asking should I buy a 50-500 sigma, or 150-500 sigma or 200-500 tamron and the 100-400l ..and these posts always say something like how is the focus, do they have is, and most importantly image quality at the long end , wide open....why are these things constantly being asked, if there is no need for a canon mount lens that reaches to 500mm. And these offerings are often less than $2000... So its doable.....so why is it no pt being done by canon ? That's the question isn't it .

Who said that there was "no need for a canon mount lens that reaches to 500mm"? Yeah, that would be great, I'm not arguing against that. I don't see how that relates to your rant though. As for why aren't Canon as cheap as Sigma? You could ask the same about Nikon, yet you are raving about them being so good to consumers. Simply put third party manufacturers are cheaper because they are not built to L standards and yes, there is an element of paying for the name with Canon and Nikon. Third party lenses can be better value if you are happy to accept they aren't quite as good. But again, what is your problem here? You are complaining because Canon don't produce what Sigma do, so what? If you want what Sigma produce, then buy a Sigma, it fits on the camera you have. Why rave because Canon don't produce it? The only reason I can think of, is that you would rather have a Canon lens which explains why they are higher priced, they are more desirable.

As for your comparisons between the 100-400L and the nikon 80-400, well yes the Nikon has some advantages but it is a brand new design being compared to a 15 year old one. Technology has moved on in those 15 years. When Canon bring out the 100-400L replacement it will be a serious rival for the Nikon 80-400. The same goes with the Nikon D7100 having f/8 AF, whilst the 7D doesn't. Again, you are comparing a brand new design to one that has been around a few years. It is quite possible that the 7D replacement will have f/8 AF as well.

You have plenty of choices though. Nobody is putting a gun to your head and making you buy Canon gear. If you feel that Nikon is better, or a Sigma 150-500 better meets your needs, then buy those and sell your Canon gear. Why try and persuade Canon to build what you want, if Nikon and Sigma already make it, as you claim. Even if you were able to persuade Canon to do what you are asking, it would take years to hit the shelves, cameras and lenses aren't designed overnight. Of course, it is quite likely that the new 7D and 100-400L are already well advanced in their development, and could be announced in the not too far distant future, they are both due for replacement.




  
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Mar 16, 2013 19:11 |  #54

ZWDB08 wrote in post #15722417 (external link)
OK , this is become a very passionate topic for me, and maybe I am off base? Maybe my petition is wrong or off... I was hoping that with a firmware update ,which is like a computer upgrade , it alters how info is processed . you can use the same optics, same mechanics, but allows it to process things differently. This is similar in theory like taping the pins. In theory when you tape the pins it alters the internal workings of lens and camera. Its all done through how the camera interprets the info sent back and forth through the connections. You should be able to achieve the same effect through just altering the programming.

No, taping the pins does not alter any internal workings at all. All it does is make the camera believe that there is no TC fitted, so it doesn't disable the AF. Nothing in the camera works any differently or become magically better.

AF needs a certain amount of contrast and light to work, you cannot change that with software as it is a physical requirement. Because lenses at f/8 or smaller don't let in enough light for the AF to work properly on most cameras, there is a software switch to shut it down when the lens reports too small an aperture. This is because Canon (or Nikon etc) would get too many complaints about faulty AF if it was allowed to work when it really can't. So, they disable it with lenses that are too slow.

Now, in bright conditions there may be enough light for it to work but you still aren't allowed to as it is a fixed cutoff. If you want to find a way around that (taped pins etc) then that is up to you, but you have to accept that AF performance will be reduced and possibly totally crap. You can't moan about poor AF though, because you are forcing the system to try and work in conditions it doesn't really work in.

You cannot alter the software in a way that will allow more light to pass through the lens and reach the AF sensor, it isn't a matter of interpreting the data.

I suspect that in the case of the 5D mkIII they can do it with a firmware change because it uses the 1Dx AF setup, but with the f/8 disabled. For whatever reason they have decided to reactivate it, how well it will work of course, remains to be seen. That AF system was designed with hardware to allow f/8 focusing, you cannot simply use firmware to tell a camera with hardware designed to only work up to f/5.6 to work to f/8. Well, you can tell it to, but it won't make it work properly as the limitation is in the hardware.

Similarly, you cannot put firmware into an f/5.6 lens that will make hardware needing f/5.6 work well, when you slap on a TC and reduce your aperture to f/8.




  
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Lloydd
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Mar 16, 2013 19:44 |  #55

Why not just tape the pins? Or buy a used 1-series instead of a new camera? A 5 year old 1-series will arguably shoot better than a lot of new entry/whatevertheycall​thenextstepuponesnow bodies and give you f/8 AF anyway.

This seems like a very simple way of getting what you want. And not expensive.

Canon sell expensive lenses because people are prepared to pay for decent lenses. If you don't like it, don't buy them.




  
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Mar 16, 2013 20:19 |  #56

sandpiper wrote in post #15722519 (external link)
Have you ever tried it? Yes, you can make the camera attempt to AF and, if the subject is in really good sunlight, it will make a decent stab at it. But you will get frustrated by the slow speed and possible hunting in less than great light. Oh, and forget AI servo keeping up with birds in flight.

Unlike you, I have tried it (with a 40D and a 5D on a 100-400L) The 5D did a better job than the 40D, but still sucked, and I went to manual focus to get the job done.

I had great luck with the 7D with a Kenko and 100-400L in good lighting personally, I posted a killdeer shot I took tracking with this combo earlier in this thread,


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Mar 16, 2013 21:39 as a reply to  @ TeamSpeed's post |  #57

Sorry, worst thread ever...




  
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Mar 16, 2013 21:47 |  #58
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I want a 50 f1.0 IS with blistering fast AF too. Why can't Canon make one for me for under $1k?


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Mar 16, 2013 21:51 |  #59
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nwlight wrote in post #15722958 (external link)
Sorry, worst thread ever...

I can't draw that conclusion, because I haven't read them all. Surely it has to be in the top ten.


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Mar 16, 2013 21:57 as a reply to  @ kin2son's post |  #60

Billginthekeys wrote in post #15721311 (external link)
There is no doubt, right now with the D7100 and the new 80-400, Nikon has a real winning combination for walkaround nature shooting. However that pair will set you back around $4,000; before a TC, or any other accessories.

For $4,000 there are a lot of options in the Canon world paired with a 7D, or 1D3 if you really want F8 compatability. Like a Sigma or Canon non-IS 500 4.5, Sigma 120-300 2.8 OS w/ TC's, or for just a bit more Canon's spendid gen 1 300 2.8 L IS.

do you know just how many pixels the 7100 places in frame? a TON. I dont think a teleconverter is reallllly needed.


Submariner wrote in post #15722195 (external link)
Well if you look at the SL 500 and the AMG 6.3 now really a 5.8 their prices have been pretty constant since 2003.
Sandpiper was right car prices did escalate significantly between 1980 and 2003, but that was when we made stuff in the UK - it all different from now on!


the 6.3 is NOT a 5.5, the MONIKER 63 is 5.5 liters in displacement. Not too sure why people miss the old 6.3 liter V8 when the new one is so darn powerful...

this thread is massively sad, but the frustration is very understandable. Its part of life, try not to let it get to ya too much, go out and shoot.


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petition to have canon upgrade 100-400 or create new lens
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