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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 21 Mar 2013 (Thursday) 00:29
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Canon T5i vs T4i

 
mike_311
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Mar 26, 2013 07:31 |  #91

jrbdmb wrote in post #15756624 (external link)
Otherwise I think your point is valid - Canon's entire APS-C lineup is in dire need of a new state-of-the-art sensor.

its coming, i'm sure canon just didn't want to put it in the t5i first. when the 7Dii comes out people would slam it as just having the same sensor as the t5i :)


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kenshap
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Mar 26, 2013 07:48 |  #92

jrbdmb wrote in post #15756624 (external link)
I would disagree that the move to 9 cross-type focus points is "incremental". The full frame 6D is getting slammed because it only included a single cross-type point. Those shooting moving or off-center subject may find the extra cross-types invaluable.

Otherwise I think your point is valid - Canon's entire APS-C lineup is in dire need of a new state-of-the-art sensor.

The entire lineup except the rebels. I can't see canon upgrading the rebel line sensor anytime soon.


Canon T6s (battery grip) | Canon T4i (aftermarket battery grip) | Canon T2i | Canon EF-S 18-55 IS | Canon EF-S 55 - 250 | Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 | Canon EF-S 10-22mm | Canon EF 100mm f2.8L Macro | Canon 40mm

  
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Amamba
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Mar 26, 2013 08:26 |  #93

jrbdmb wrote in post #15756624 (external link)
I would disagree that the move to 9 cross-type focus points is "incremental". The full frame 6D is getting slammed because it only included a single cross-type point. Those shooting moving or off-center subject may find the extra cross-types invaluable.

Otherwise I think your point is valid - Canon's entire APS-C lineup is in dire need of a new state-of-the-art sensor.

Agree. As I said, between T2i and T5i Canon produced exactly one real feature. And even that - unlike the improvements in IQ that could have happened - is only helping some of the shooters. I am still waiting for Canon cameras to get better dynamic range.

I think I said before.. the problem is not that Canon makes stupid marketing decisions (Nikon had their high level AF in consumer DSLRs much earlier, but then Canon had the swively screen and useful HD video). The problem is, DIGIC sensors are lagging behind Sony sensors - at least in my opinion. If Nikon catches up in the lens department, at least in the entry / mid level area, both selection and price wise, Canon risks losing the consumer DSLR market - and that's where they make the money, they probably sell 100 Txi's for each XD body.


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kenshap
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Mar 26, 2013 09:07 |  #94

Amamba wrote in post #15756835 (external link)
Agree. As I said, between T2i and T5i Canon produced exactly one real feature. And even that - unlike the improvements in IQ that could have happened - is only helping some of the shooters. I am still waiting for Canon cameras to get better dynamic range.

I think I said before.. the problem is not that Canon makes stupid marketing decisions (Nikon had their high level AF in consumer DSLRs much earlier, but then Canon had the swively screen and useful HD video). The problem is, DIGIC sensors are lagging behind Sony sensors - at least in my opinion. If Nikon catches up in the lens department, at least in the entry / mid level area, both selection and price wise, Canon risks losing the consumer DSLR market - and that's where they make the money, they probably sell 100 Txi's for each XD body.

I don't think Canon is any way at risk to lose the consumer market because they have a good reputation that delivers. Of course, what do I know? What do any of us priescent types who like to play ceo know?

While arguably the t4i to t5i does seem like a marketing ploy, the t3i to t4i offers real usability improvements, which imo, number more than one.

IMO at some point there will be trickle down into the consumer models, but if I were Canon (there I'm playing arm chair CEO again); I would be upgrading my flagship cameras before upgrading my entry level consumer cameras.


Canon T6s (battery grip) | Canon T4i (aftermarket battery grip) | Canon T2i | Canon EF-S 18-55 IS | Canon EF-S 55 - 250 | Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 | Canon EF-S 10-22mm | Canon EF 100mm f2.8L Macro | Canon 40mm

  
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mwsilver
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Mar 26, 2013 09:36 |  #95

kenshap wrote in post #15756940 (external link)
I don't think Canon is any way at risk to lose the consumer market because they have a good reputation that delivers. Of course, what do I know? What do any of us priescent types who like to play ceo know?

While arguably the t4i to t5i does seem like a marketing ploy, the t3i to t4i offers real usability improvements, which imo, number more than one.

IMO at some point there will be trickle down into the consumer models, but if I were Canon (there I'm playing arm chair CEO again); I would be upgrading my flagship cameras before upgrading my entry level consumer cameras.

Their strategy seems all over the place. I think the bulk of their dSLR market, and therefore their profits is in the lower end of the range and since Nikon came out with the D5200, Canon had to rush something to market to compete. Many, if not most buyers of Rebels are either first time buyers or less sophisticated dSLR buyers and to many a new model is a NEW MODEL and therefore "better". Frankly introducing the T5i with so little change over the T4i is nothing more than a marketing scheme to increase consumer interest.


Mark
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kenshap
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Mar 26, 2013 09:49 |  #96

mwsilver wrote in post #15757010 (external link)
Their strategy seems all over the place. I think the bulk of their dSLR market, and therefore their profits is in the lower end of the range and since Nikon came out with the D5200, Canon had to rush something to market to compete. Many, if not most buyers of Rebels are either first time buyers or less sophisticated dSLR buyers and to many a new model is a NEW MODEL and therefore "better". Frankly introducing the T5i with so little change over the T4i is nothing more than a marketing scheme to increase consumer interest.

I can only guess why they didn't put the DIGIC 6 processor in the T5. :rolleyes::rolleyes: I can come up with some scenarios, but it would be pure speculation. At least incorporating the DIGIC 6 would stem some of the criticism in these forums.

Hard to tell why Canon does such things since we don't have access to their internal product research. They know darn well what they are doing, they are not a stupid corporation.

Seems we would all feel better to think Canon is playing CYA with the t5i; that Canon is learning their hard lesson from not listening to the more knowledgeable types on these forums. That Canon sales are dwindling either due to the smartphone or other manufacturers having better sensors, and price pressure on the high-end models are causing financial concerns within the company.

We would like to think the above to "punish" Canon for their lack of innovation in the DSLR market. But alas, nobody really knows.


Canon T6s (battery grip) | Canon T4i (aftermarket battery grip) | Canon T2i | Canon EF-S 18-55 IS | Canon EF-S 55 - 250 | Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 | Canon EF-S 10-22mm | Canon EF 100mm f2.8L Macro | Canon 40mm

  
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RTPVid
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Mar 26, 2013 10:31 |  #97

Amamba wrote in post #15756835 (external link)
...The problem is, DIGIC sensors are lagging behind Sony sensors - at least in my opinion. ...

DIGIC is the processor, not the sensor. It is presently an ARM-based ASIC.


Tom

  
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Amamba
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Mar 26, 2013 13:10 |  #98

RTPVid wrote in post #15757138 (external link)
DIGIC is the processor, not the sensor. It is presently an ARM-based ASIC.

My mistake ;)

mwsilver wrote in post #15757010 (external link)
Their strategy seems all over the place. I think the bulk of their dSLR market, and therefore their profits is in the lower end of the range and since Nikon came out with the D5200, Canon had to rush something to market to compete. Many, if not most buyers of Rebels are either first time buyers or less sophisticated dSLR buyers and to many a new model is a NEW MODEL and therefore "better". Frankly introducing the T5i with so little change over the T4i is nothing more than a marketing scheme to increase consumer interest.

I think you hit it on the head.

However the "less sophisticated" doesn't necessarily mean "unable to search and compare".

In my completely un-scientific assessment, 6 years ago when I just got into DSLRs, at any venue where one would encounter lots of entry level DSLR shooters (like a zoo), there was probably about the same mix of Canons and Nikons. Now it appears the ratio is more like 3:2 with entry level Nikons being in the lead. Canon better catch up in a hurry.


Added: here's an interesting and seemingly fair perspective (not related to entry level bodies, though):

http://www.ryanbrenize​r.com …of-the-canon-5d-mark-iii/ (external link)


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Thurman
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Mar 26, 2013 13:41 |  #99

Lol, the idea that everyone that buys a Rebel because they don't know how to use them is ridiculous. The reason I own acouple rebels is the price point.. I'm not a professional but i'm not a first time user or someone that doesn't know how to use one. I'm just someone on a budget..


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kenshap
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Mar 26, 2013 14:05 |  #100

Amamba wrote in post #15757668 (external link)
My mistake ;)

I think you hit it on the head.

However the "less sophisticated" doesn't necessarily mean "unable to search and compare".

In my completely un-scientific assessment, 6 years ago when I just got into DSLRs, at any venue where one would encounter lots of entry level DSLR shooters (like a zoo), there was probably about the same mix of Canons and Nikons. Now it appears the ratio is more like 3:2 with entry level Nikons being in the lead. Canon better catch up in a hurry.


Added: here's an interesting and seemingly fair perspective (not related to entry level bodies, though):

http://www.ryanbrenize​r.com …of-the-canon-5d-mark-iii/ (external link)

At venues, parks, amusement parks, zoos, botanical gardens etc. I tend to see more Canons. Maybe a regional thing, but I don't think any conclusion can be drawn by counting how many cameras and of what kind one sees in a venue.


Canon T6s (battery grip) | Canon T4i (aftermarket battery grip) | Canon T2i | Canon EF-S 18-55 IS | Canon EF-S 55 - 250 | Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 | Canon EF-S 10-22mm | Canon EF 100mm f2.8L Macro | Canon 40mm

  
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RTPVid
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Mar 26, 2013 14:10 |  #101

Amamba wrote in post #15757668 (external link)
...In my completely un-scientific assessment, 6 years ago when I just got into DSLRs, at any venue where one would encounter lots of entry level DSLR shooters (like a zoo), there was probably about the same mix of Canons and Nikons. Now it appears the ratio is more like 3:2 with entry level Nikons being in the lead. Canon better catch up in a hurry....

Amazon's sales ranking is NOT a market share, since it is more "instantaneous", but it is interesting that it is not showing the Nikon bodies as having overtaken the Canon ones, in fact, quite the contrary. Heck, the Canon 6D kit is currently higher ranked than the Nikon 3200D kit!

Here's the link (but it is updated hourly, so...)

http://www.amazon.com …ameras/zgbs/pho​to/3017941 (external link)


Tom

  
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kenshap
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Mar 26, 2013 14:12 |  #102

Thurman wrote in post #15757807 (external link)
Lol, the idea that everyone that buys a Rebel because they don't know how to use them is ridiculous. The reason I own acouple rebels is the price point.. I'm not a professional but i'm not a first time user or someone that doesn't know how to use one. I'm just someone on a budget..

I don't know who is propagating this thinking. My t4i suits me perfectly. I also bought it for the price point..not interested in old technology such as 5d or 5d2. 5d3 is more camera than I need. Keeping my eye on the 6D.


Canon T6s (battery grip) | Canon T4i (aftermarket battery grip) | Canon T2i | Canon EF-S 18-55 IS | Canon EF-S 55 - 250 | Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 | Canon EF-S 10-22mm | Canon EF 100mm f2.8L Macro | Canon 40mm

  
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RTPVid
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Mar 26, 2013 14:13 |  #103

Thurman wrote in post #15757807 (external link)
Lol, the idea that everyone that buys a Rebel because they don't know how to use them is ridiculous. The reason I own acouple rebels is the price point.. I'm not a professional but i'm not a first time user or someone that doesn't know how to use one. I'm just someone on a budget..

+1.

I have over 40 years experience shooting with SLRs. I know my way around exposure, composition, and even the darkroom. Not so much with Photoshop, yet, but I'm getting there.


Tom

  
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mwsilver
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Mar 26, 2013 14:18 |  #104

Thurman wrote in post #15757807 (external link)
Lol, the idea that everyone that buys a Rebel because they don't know how to use them is ridiculous. The reason I own acouple rebels is the price point.. I'm not a professional but i'm not a first time user or someone that doesn't know how to use one. I'm just someone on a budget..

If you're referring to my recent post, I never really said any of that. Please reread it. What I said was " Many, if not most buyers of Rebels are either first time buyers or less sophisticated dSLR buyers and to many a new model is a NEW MODEL and therefore "better"." I stand by that. Many Rebel owners are also semi pros or knowledgeable amateurs, but newbies to dSLRs will be less knowledgeable and less sophisticated, and there are a lot of them purchasing Rebels as their first camera. When I bought my T2i I knew virtually nothing. I was commenting on the lack of new technology in the T5i and Canon's apparent marketing strategy. I personally own two Rebels, mostly used by my wife and son, as well as my 60D.


Mark
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Amamba
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Mar 26, 2013 15:01 |  #105

RTPVid wrote in post #15757907 (external link)
Amazon's sales ranking is NOT a market share, since it is more "instantaneous", but it is interesting that it is not showing the Nikon bodies as having overtaken the Canon ones, in fact, quite the contrary. Heck, the Canon 6D kit is currently higher ranked than the Nikon 3200D kit!

Here's the link (but it is updated hourly, so...)

http://www.amazon.com …ameras/zgbs/pho​to/3017941 (external link)

That's interesting to know, thanks.

My main reason for going with Canon over Nikon originally was the availability of lenses (even though I ended up with only 3 one of which I barely use) and the overall impression that their QC was better. (Canon users complained of need to have the focus calibrated while Nikonians complained of hot pixels and dying sensors. I'd rather deal with having to calibrate the focus under warranty than having a dead camera after it expires. In all fairness, I can't complain about the longevity of Canon gear, somebody out there is probably still using my 6 year old XTi).

If I was to start from scratch a couple years ago, I would've definitely jumped ship and got a D90.

Today - I am not sure. I still think Canon is a better value overall, but their ship is seriously slowing down.


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Canon T5i vs T4i
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