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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 26 Feb 2013 (Tuesday) 19:33
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Cheap Competitors - How do they do it?

 
mobei
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Mar 28, 2013 23:28 as a reply to  @ post 15767605 |  #76

tell tale signs of a criminal on social media:
No name posted
no address
No phone number
free email account
no website

Send a email with the link to the taxman.
They take it from there. If you want you can follow up which we did, hence the approx 50%
figure I used. If they fail to comply with tax code they get indicted.
People can call him on me all they want I'm legit.




  
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mobei
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Mar 28, 2013 23:54 as a reply to  @ mobei's post |  #77

On another note.
Was reading another thread on stock photography and the damage it is doing to the value of our work.
You may check your state tax codes, they may require that these photogs have a tax license and need to be reporting these sales.




  
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Tom ­ Reichner
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Mar 29, 2013 00:27 |  #78

mobei wrote in post #15767785 (external link)
On another note.
Was reading another thread on stock photography and the damage it is doing to the value of our work.
You may check your state tax codes, they may require that these photogs have a tax license and need to be reporting these sales.

Photographers who sell stock images directly to publishers:
The publishers require that the photographer fill out a W-4 (or whatever the tax form is), or else they require that the photographer give them their social security number, then the publisher files a 1099 with the IRS at the end of the year. The photographer must also sign a form certifying whether or not they are not required to have a certain amount of their earnings withheld.

For photographers who sell stock images thru an agency:
The agency requires the same thing that the publisher does, so far as the tax form and social security number is concerned. The photographer must also sign a form certifying whether or not they are not required to have a certain amount of their earnings withheld. The agency files a W-2 at the end of each year, which states that year's total contributor earnings.

The aforementioned requirements must be met before a publisher will accept your work, and if you are with an agency, the agency will not allow you to submit images until you have submitted the necessary tax information.


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DocFrankenstein
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Mar 29, 2013 02:12 |  #79

Tom Reichner wrote in post #15767882 (external link)
Photographers who sell stock images directly to publishers:
The publishers require that the photographer fill out a W-4 (or whatever the tax form is), or else they require that the photographer give them their social security number, then the publisher files a 1099 with the IRS at the end of the year. The photographer must also sign a form certifying whether or not they are not required to have a certain amount of their earnings withheld.

For photographers who sell stock images thru an agency:
The agency requires the same thing that the publisher does, so far as the tax form and social security number is concerned. The photographer must also sign a form certifying whether or not they are not required to have a certain amount of their earnings withheld. The agency files a W-2 at the end of each year, which states that year's total contributor earnings.

The aforementioned requirements must be met before a publisher will accept your work, and if you are with an agency, the agency will not allow you to submit images until you have submitted the necessary tax information.

I'm sure he'll report them anyways. A friendly tax audit never hurt anybody, especially the competition. :rolleyes:


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Hogloff
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Mar 29, 2013 06:49 |  #80
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mobei wrote in post #15767496 (external link)
To the OP's question: How do they do it?

They do it because professional photogs allow them.
Professionals could eliminate better than half of the cheap photogs by calling the tax authorities as we have found. (our region) roughly half are operating outside the law.
About 2 years ago a number of the studio owners in the region decided to start notifying the tax authorities when we found people advertizing on FB etc. It wasn't a easy decision but paying the mortgage and feeding our families was more important to us. We have no delusion of ever becoming a must go to photog like a McNally, just average mid america photogs that were being undercut by amatuers doing business illegally. Well so far things are looking up, Christmas sales were up this year not quite to the levels of 5 years ago but manageable. Were waiting to see how much Sr. Portraits improve.
Cheats and criminalss survive only when not confronted.
Advice to the pros: When you sit down with your laptop at night in front of the TV, scotch in hand check out FB and other social media and send a quick email to the proper authorities. If your too lazy to do this in order to survive then don't **** when you go broke.

Really, you would go this far to eliminate a so called GWAC that you cannot compete against. Rather than provide an overall service that the GWAC could not compete with, you would just go tattle on him to the teacher.

I guess you are squeaky clean in your life. Always paid taxes on goods bought from other states, never tried to slide something through on your taxes. Yeh...right.




  
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umphotography
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Mar 29, 2013 08:26 as a reply to  @ post 15767605 |  #81

Im gonna LMAO when Facebook gets knocked off its perch by the next best thing,,,,, and it will happen. Facebook is really starting to be a PITA for those that operate legitimate business'.

When Facebook falls, And it will fall out of favor,,the people using Facebook to promote as photographers will have to do what the rest of us do to stay in business.

When the tax laws are changed so that you have to prove you are a legitimate business..the amateurs will disappear. Until then, It just something legitimate business has to deal with.


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JeffreyG
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Mar 29, 2013 08:45 |  #82

mobei wrote in post #15767496 (external link)
Professionals could eliminate better than half of the cheap photogs by calling the tax authorities as we have found. (our region) roughly half are operating outside the law.
.

You are clearly not in the US. The United States IRS has absolutely no time to go after the odd hobbiest who is failing to report a couple thousand $$$ in moonlighting income. It's just never going to happen given their staffing levels. The IRS in general cannot act on reported cheats unless the understated income in in the millions.

Another question....how exactly do you know what these people are claiming on their taxes? When you called the Tax Service and reported these people, just what exactly did you tell them?

I personally find it hard to believe that you could place an anonymous phone call alleging a tax cheat of a piddling amount of money based on little to no evidence and the tax authorities jumped into any kind of action. More likely these competitors simply folded on their own and you decided it was due to your call.

It is a nice story of attacking suspected unethical behavior with real unethical behavior though.


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RDKirk
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Mar 29, 2013 09:30 as a reply to  @ JeffreyG's post |  #83

You are clearly not in the US. The United States IRS has absolutely no time to go after the odd hobbiest who is failing to report a couple thousand $$$ in moonlighting income. It's just never going to happen given their staffing levels. The IRS in general cannot act on reported cheats unless the understated income in in the millions.

The IRS won't, but there are a lot of state tax revenue agencies that will. I'm not advocating going to that effort, but some state tax revenuers are bloody hell on collecting every red cent.


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gh ­ patriot
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Mar 29, 2013 17:07 |  #84

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #15756268 (external link)
People will give you competition because the profession is FUN, EASY and PLEASANT.


Yes every 12 hour long wedding I shoot is always easy and pleasant. :lol: You can't be serious.


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DocFrankenstein
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Mar 29, 2013 17:27 |  #85

gh patriot wrote in post #15770220 (external link)
Yes every 12 hour long wedding I shoot is always easy and pleasant. :lol: You can't be serious.

And so is the life of a porn actor. Not every 12 hour day is easy and pleasant...

I'm stretching it a bit to make a point. If you shoot 30 weddings a year it's one thing.

But if you're the proverbial weekend warrior and it's your first wedding, I think it would be fun, easy and pleasant. You get to take pictures for the whole day and there's a meal at the end. :)

Would it become work after doing it for a few weeks - sure. But not the first few times. I shot my first wedding as an amateur for free for a friend. Lugging a big bag with equipment wasn't too fun and I broke a sweat from all the stress. But it was a fun day with a lot of positive experiences.


National Sarcasm Society. Like we need your support.

  
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Mike ­ R
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Mar 29, 2013 23:04 |  #86

I shoot HS sports part time and my business has increased each year, strictly by word of mouth. When I started with my first team, I researched what others in my area charged as I didn't want to be "cheap" If you feel that you produce good work, then charge like you do. Being cheap is saying that you don't have confidence in yourself.

I have noticed a trend of established photographers getting in to other (I can only guess to make ends meet), such as the selling of templates and training CD's, classes, writing books, arranging photo tours,


Mike R
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Phil ­ V
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Mar 30, 2013 04:06 |  #87

gh patriot wrote in post #15770220 (external link)
Yes every 12 hour long wedding I shoot is always easy and pleasant. :lol: You can't be serious.

Really? Every 12 hour wedding I shoot is about 5 times as much fun as any 12 hour shift I did on a production line:rolleyes:.

I'm not saying that shooting weddings is easy money - but we're not coal mining or even sat in a booth in a call centre:cry:. You'll not get people to understand your prices by pretending this is unpleasant work.


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mobei
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Mar 30, 2013 22:19 |  #88

Hogloff wrote in post #15768301 (external link)
Really, you would go this far to eliminate a so called GWAC that you cannot compete against. Rather than provide an overall service that the GWAC could not compete with, you would just go tattle on him to the teacher.

I guess you are squeaky clean in your life. Always paid taxes on goods bought from other states, never tried to slide something through on your taxes. Yeh...right.

Their not competing with me their stealing from the tax payers. You try operating a business when the other guy doesn't collect sales tax or does and pockets it. Then he has a margin by not paying use tax and then an additional margin by not paying property taxes. Probably not insured either. People that actually compete against me play by the same rules. The only way these crooks can exist is to cheat.
Yes I do report all my earnings and submit all taxes due. There are a few honorable people left in the world.




  
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mobei
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Mar 30, 2013 22:26 |  #89

JeffreyG wrote in post #15768545 (external link)
You are clearly not in the US. The United States IRS has absolutely no time to go after the odd hobbiest who is failing to report a couple thousand $$$ in moonlighting income. It's just never going to happen given their staffing levels. The IRS in general cannot act on reported cheats unless the understated income in in the millions.

Another question....how exactly do you know what these people are claiming on their taxes? When you called the Tax Service and reported these people, just what exactly did you tell them?

I personally find it hard to believe that you could place an anonymous phone call alleging a tax cheat of a piddling amount of money based on little to no evidence and the tax authorities jumped into any kind of action. More likely these competitors simply folded on their own and you decided it was due to your call.

It is a nice story of attacking suspected unethical behavior with real unethical behavior though.

Federal income tax is only 1/4 of your tax liability as a business. There is sales tax collection and submittal, use tax that must be paid on out of state purchases and property taxes paid on your gear. If your going to sell most states require all of the above. You don't get to "make a little money to help pay for gear".




  
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mobei
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Mar 30, 2013 22:29 |  #90

JeffreyG wrote in post #15768545 (external link)
It is a nice story of attacking suspected unethical behavior with real unethical behavior though.

I didn't say anything about calling the IRS.
Since when has the world deteriorated so far that reporting criminal behavior is unethical?
Unbelievable response.:cry:




  
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