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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 01 Apr 2013 (Monday) 18:08
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Gear vs Skill

 
learncanon
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Apr 03, 2013 12:59 as a reply to  @ post 15787153 |  #136

just a joke:

1DX is for beginners
1000D is for the pros.

pros do not need of the best iso performance, AF, IQ, fps, etc. they should be able to get the shot since they are 'so good' already.

beginners should use best bodies because they need the best iso, fastest fps, best AF system to help them get the shot.....

haaha




  
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Flores
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Apr 03, 2013 13:08 |  #137

anyone can take a 'perfect picture'. Just ask instagram. ;)

even if it's not up to our lofty standards, the image that someone captures themselves, is just as 'good' as one you capture with your super expensive camera, because it means something to THEM.

<shrug>

that is the reason I say 'gear isn't all that important'... it's a means to an end. If _I_ have a vision of a razor sharp image of a speeding race car taken from 100 yards away, that tells me what gear I need to capture the image. The gear doesn't define the image for me. I could take that image with an iphone. but i couldn't use it for what _I_ want to use it for, so that would be the wrong gear for what my vision desires.

If i let my gear define what I shoot, then I would still be taking pictures with an smart phone, and I would probably be very happy of all the pictures of close up stuff i could take with it. (and actually still do) :)

making the image you want is the goal. the tools you use to get there simply determine how long the journey is.




  
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OhLook
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Apr 03, 2013 13:08 |  #138

Someone told me a story about the time he said to his photographer friend "You must have a really good camera." Well, the photographer did have a really good camera, but he responded by buying a cheap disposable camera and going around all day using it, taking pictures of this and that. Then he showed the other guy the photos . . .


PRONOUN ADVISORY: OhLook is a she. | A FEW CORRECT SPELLINGS: lens, aperture, amateur, hobbyist, per se, raccoon, whoa, more so (2 wds.), shoo-in | IMAGE EDITING OK

  
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mrbubbles
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Apr 03, 2013 13:16 |  #139

I think I am a perfect example of this. I have been shooting for about 3 years now. Started with a T1i and now have a 5Dmkii and 17-40L, 24-105L, 70-200 f/4L. I just recently did my second wedding ever with a friend of mine. He has been shooting for the last 15 years and we were using the same gear(5D2, 24-105 and 70-200).

We had two strobes and were sharing them wirelessly. I know 'how' to use my gear very well. My friend knows 'how' to use his gear very well. However, throughout the wedding we would show each other some of our shots and his always blew mine away. It is amazing what he is able to see. Dont get me wrong...I came away with some great shots and the lighting in the room was excellent but in no way was I able to match my friends ability in seeing. I have a lot to learn.

Gear means nothing if you have no vision.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Apr 03, 2013 13:23 |  #140

Phoenixkh wrote in post #15786377 (external link)
I've been inspired...... I'm listening to Disraeli Gears

tiny purple fishes, run laughing through your fingers...


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CyberDyneSystems
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Apr 03, 2013 13:28 |  #141

davidc502 wrote in post #15787153 (external link)
It's amazing how many examples, from sports to music to vocations, where skill is clearly most important, yet for some reason, people aren't equating photography the same way.

This is exactly where I am hung up on this thread.

Give me the right soccer ball, and I'll play just as well as Lionel Messi!

Frankly, I'm a little concerned that people that can't see this same thing relating to photography, just as it does EVERY WHERE ELSE IN LIFE, must have both really bad taste in, and very little respect for photography.

No one is arguing that the tools don't help our work. That too is true of any skill. But the tool alone is nothing but a tool.


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shinyknights
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Apr 03, 2013 13:32 |  #142

mrbubbles wrote in post #15787221 (external link)
I think I am a perfect example of this. I have been shooting for about 3 years now. Started with a T1i and now have a 5Dmkii and 17-40L, 24-105L, 70-200 f/4L. I just recently did my second wedding ever with a friend of mine. He has been shooting for the last 15 years and we were using the same gear(5D2, 24-105 and 70-200).

We had two strobes and were sharing them wirelessly. I know 'how' to use my gear very well. My friend knows 'how' to use his gear very well. However, throughout the wedding we would show each other some of our shots and his always blew mine away. It is amazing what he is able to see. Dont get me wrong...I came away with some great shots and the lighting in the room was excellent but in no way was I able to match my friends ability in seeing. I have a lot to learn.

Gear means nothing if you have no vision.

I would love to see some of his photos!




  
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airfrogusmc
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Apr 03, 2013 13:36 |  #143

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #15787260 (external link)
This is exactly where I am hung up on this thread.

Give me the right soccer ball, and I'll play just as well as Lionel Messi!

Frankly, I'm a little concerned that people that can't see this same thing relating to photography, just as it does EVERY WHERE ELSE IN LIFE, must have both really bad taste in, and very little respect for photography.

Comparing soccer to photography is a real stretch. Without vision no amount of skill will make you a great photographer period. You need skill, you need a camera but the vision is what separates the really good from all the rest.




  
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mrbubbles
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Apr 03, 2013 13:38 |  #144

shinyknights wrote in post #15787273 (external link)
I would love to see some of his photos!

I would love to show you but I probably wont see any for a few weeks!


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CyberDyneSystems
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Apr 03, 2013 14:04 |  #145

airfrogusmc wrote in post #15787290 (external link)
Comparing soccer to photography is a real stretch. ..

But it's everything, universally where this applies, except apparently to photography.

Bushido 101. The Sword does not make the swordsman.

It is "your" (universal your, ie: them, you other people, etc..) insistence that photography is somehow different from every other skill known to humankind, that photography alone seems to demand less of skill and more of "gears" than everything else that makes the argument fall apart.


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20droger
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Apr 03, 2013 14:12 as a reply to  @ CyberDyneSystems's post |  #146

I hereby sentence all those who think gear makes the photographer to listen to a four-hour concert by a beginner with a Stradivarius.

Me? I'll take Itzak with a $100 fiddle, thank you very much!




  
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CyberDyneSystems
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Apr 03, 2013 14:13 |  #147

Mr Bubbles, on a somewhat similar note, I am terrible at taking photos of people.
I have worked with photogs that excel in this. They have a way with people, a care and lack of self consciousness that I can not master. I shoot wildlife mostly, and then, I am alone with the beasties, in my zone.

I have lots of great high end gear that help me be able to capture the moment for wildlife and action photography, and in my comfort zone, I can use these tools to bettwr capture my vision, to improve the chances of the camera reacting to the timing I;m looking for, and I can be creative.

But since I suck at working with people, and I have poor people "SKILLS" and also lack the "skill" to be creative and form a good vision when shooting people, despite all that high end gear, my shots suck.
No amount of gear will help me make better people photos.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Apr 03, 2013 14:15 |  #148

20droger wrote in post #15787410 (external link)
I hereby sentence all those who think gear makes the photographer to listen to a four-hour concert by a beginner with a Stradivarius.

Me? I'll take Itzak with a $100 fiddle, thank you very much!


YES!

But apparently, this well understood rule of nature/fact of life does not apply to our little world.


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airfrogusmc
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Apr 03, 2013 14:16 |  #149

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #15787391 (external link)
But it's everything, universally where this applies, except apparently to photography.

Bushido 101. The Sword does not make the swordsman.

It is "your" (universal your, ie: them, you other people, etc..) insistence that photography is somehow different from every other skill known to humankind, that photography alone seems to demand less of skill and more of "gears" than everything else that makes the argument fall apart.

Well I will concede that heart is what separates the great athletes from the very skilled ones that don't have heart. Vision something different but it to will separate the greats from the skilled that do not have vision.

Skill and great equipment without vision is empty, for lack of a better word.

Weston on vision
"The photographer’s most important and likewise most difficult task is not learning to manage his camera, or to develop, or to print. It is learning to see photographically – that is, learning to see his subject matter in terms of the capacities of his tools and processes, so that he can instantaneously translate the elements and values in a scene before him into the photograph he wants to make." - Edward Weston,




  
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20droger
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Apr 03, 2013 14:21 |  #150

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #15787420 (external link)
YES!

But apparently, this well understood rule of nature/fact of life does not apply to our little world.

True, but it does not apply only to those who cannot reason.

Sadly, those who will not reason have no advantage over those who cannot reason. They do, however, seem to have louder voices.




  
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