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Thread started 11 Apr 2013 (Thursday) 18:33
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Hope my daughter didn't ruin this photographers day too badly.

 
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MJPhotos24
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Apr 12, 2013 01:00 |  #46

drvnbysound wrote in post #15818518 (external link)
To me, I don't think the issue lies with what she did, as much as how/why she did it. Based on the OP, it sounded to me as if this were done to tell the photographer: 'I don't care about your work, my parents usually don't buy your products, so I'm going to waste your time... other kids might think it's funny and follow along, and you're likely to lose sales over it, hopefully you can still pay your bills at the end of the month (actually I don't care about that either!)... but it's all a joke to me, so I think it's funny.'

...what he said.

Honestly nobody comes out looking good - not the student (wonder where she got the idea not to respect the photographer?), definitely not the parent in this brag attempt, not the photographer for not doing their job of keeping them in line, not the teacher (if one was there) that should have stopped the fooling around, or the school if a teacher was not there. All around fail.

Following flying, done!


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Apr 12, 2013 01:01 |  #47

drvnbysound wrote in post #15818518 (external link)
To me, I don't think the issue lies with what she did, as much as how/why she did it. Based on the OP, it sounded to me as if this were done to tell the photographer: I don't care about your work, my parents usually don't buy your products, so I'm going to waste your time... other kids might think it's funny and follow along, and you're likely to lose sales over it, hopefully you can still pay your bills at the end of the month (actually I don't care about that either!)... but it's all a joke to me, so I think it's funny.

...I don't think any kid cares about the photographers work. And her parents usually didn't buy their product. And she didn't waste anyone's time. And I'm not seeing the disrespect.

But she did something different that is sounds like her parents are gonna love. And her parents will probably spend some money with this photographer for a change. I don't see why she should be held accountable for someone else's actions: especially since we are relying on third-hand recitation by a proud parent of an incident that probably went down slightly differently in real life than it did in the excited retelling.

Isn't this what photography is all about? The photographer captured a very special moment for the mum and dad: one that school photographers rarely get to capture. There is nothing in the OP that sounds disrespectful at all. It sounds like a daughter who wanted to do something that would make her parents day, and it did. And the story was embellished the way a proud father does. Its an amusing anecdote, not a statement on the direction society is heading. I'm still not seeing what the girl did wrong.

And since we are in the business of photography: I have no doubt that kids get snarky and act up at photoshoots: but I've never had kids behave as badly as some of the adults I've had to deal with. Some of them really don't want their photo taken and act like four year olds. We are in the customer service business. Its not personal guys, its just part of the job.


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drvnbysound
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Apr 12, 2013 01:02 |  #48

I've actually got a question...

How do the financials usually work for photographers who usually shoot for schools (e.g. LifeTouch). I'd have to assume that they build expectations of orders into their pricing when they are shooting so many kids. Is this actually the case, or do they charge the school a session fee that covers ALL of their time (setup, photographing, editing, managing orders, prints, packaging, delivery)?


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Apr 12, 2013 01:07 |  #49

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #15818556 (external link)
She acted like a fool specifically to screw over the official photographer because Daddy's a better shooter and the official guy wasn't worth respecting.

...done here.

...bye!

MJPhotos24 wrote:
...what he said.

Honestly nobody comes out looking good - not the student (wonder where she got the idea not to respect the photographer?), definitely not the parent in this brag attempt, not the photographer for not doing their job of keeping them in line, not the teacher (if one was there) that should have stopped the fooling around, or the school if a teacher was not there. All around fail.

Following flying, done!

See ya!

And I think you both are wrong. And a re-read of the OP reinforces my opinion. Unless you expect conformity at these sort of things I'm not seeing the disrespect.


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drvnbysound
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Apr 12, 2013 01:10 |  #50

banquetbear wrote in post #15818567 (external link)
...I don't think any kid cares about the photographers work. And her parents usually didn't buy their product. And she didn't waste anyone's time. And I'm not seeing the disrespect.

So, if the kids don't care and the parents don't buy the product, why do we bother taking pictures of kids?

Let me put this another way, if the kid doesn't care about the picture and the parent isn't going to buy the product... Why is the photographer wasting his time?! Because, that's exactly what he'd be doing... wasting his time!


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Apr 12, 2013 01:14 |  #51

drvnbysound wrote in post #15818574 (external link)
So, if the kids don't care and the parents don't buy the product, why do we bother taking pictures of kids?

Let me put this another way, if the kid doesn't care about the picture and the parent isn't going to buy the product... Why is the photographer wasting his time?! Because, that's exactly what he'd be doing... wasting his time!

...my understanding is every kid gets their photo taken: prints are prepared and then sent out to the parents and if the parents don't return the images they end up paying for it. Its a "proactive hard-sell" marketing technique designed to maximize sales. Please correct me if I am wrong in this particular instance. So she had to get the photo taken anyway and she decided to do something memorable for her parents: who would end up buying this year instead of returning the photos.

And this is a disrespectful action some how?


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drvnbysound
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Apr 12, 2013 01:25 |  #52

banquetbear wrote in post #15818579 (external link)
...my understanding is every kid gets their photo taken: prints are prepared and then sent out to the parents and if the parents don't return the images they end up paying for it. Its a "proactive hard-sell" marketing technique designed to maximize sales. Please correct me if I am wrong in this particular instance. So she had to get the photo taken anyway and she decided to do something memorable for her parents: who would end up buying this year instead of returning the photos.

I've never seen proofs here that had to be paid for if they weren't returned, and it's easy to do so if that were the case.

Apparently, no length of explanation is going to have you understand the disrespect that I (and others) see in this situation.

Having said that, I'm still eager to hear about how most of these shoots are done financially (between the photographer and the school)...

I think the dynamic would be different if this were a standard client who had already paid for a session or sitting fee. In this scenario, the photographer would have already been fully paid for the shoot and this really would have been the client wasting his/her own time and money. I'd gladly accept money from a client who pays a full session fee, goofs off during the shoot, and doesn't want any photos out of the deal. You mean I'd get paid to stand there and click the shutter while watching you act like a fool... and I don't have to bother editing any of the pictures?! Yes, please!

banquetbear wrote in post #15818579 (external link)
And this is a disrespectful action some how?

Here are the "high points" from the OP that had me come to my opinion of disrespectful:

My daughter knowing that we don't buy school pictures decided to be creative today. She didn't tell her mother and I of her plans until dinner today (after the deed was done).

[Noting, that a slang interpretation of deed, is similar to taboo... or to knowingly do something that most people don't approve of.]

A friend of hers nearly took 10 minutes of the poor man's time by over exaggerating every thing he asked. "Head back....she stared at the ceiling, head down a little....stare at toes, you get the idea". Finally in exasperation he took a shot with her looking nearly backward, staring at the ceiling with a goofy ass grin.

...these pictures are going to be so bad...


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Apr 12, 2013 01:45 |  #53

drvnbysound wrote in post #15818600 (external link)
I've never seen proofs here that had to be paid for if they weren't returned, and it's easy to do so if that were the case.

:: shrugs :: She still didn't waste the photographers time. Her photo was going to get taken anyway.

Apparently, no length of explanation is going to have you understand the disrespect that I (and others) see in this situation.

You haven't shown that the photographer was treated with disrespect. Here is what the OP wrote again:

"
When it was her turn, she took her long scarf and draped it over her head like an old Russian woman, put on the most sour look, and then gave some sort of 'model' pose as she put it.

The poor photographer wasn't quite sure what to do, paused then asked her if that was what she really wanted. Without losing a beat, she replied 'it's the way my mom wants me to do it...she's european'. Apparently he said ok, then took the shot."

You've written what you perceive to be disrespect. But it is only your perception. I perceive it differently. It would help if you could point out what specific parts of what I quoted above lead you to the conclusion "'I don't care about your work, my parents usually don't buy your products, so I'm going to waste your time..." She was playing a joke: on her parents.

I think the dynamic would be different if this were a standard client who had already paid for a session or sitting fee. In this scenario, the photographer would have already been fully paid for the shoot and this really would have been the client wasting his/her own time and money. I'd gladly accept money from a client who pays a full session fee, goofs off during the shoot, and doesn't want any photos out of the deal. You mean I'd get paid to stand there and click the shutter while watching you act like a fool... and I don't have to bother editing any of the pictures?! Yes, please!

And there are no end of complaints from parents who have to waste their time returning prints to photography vendors just to make sure they don't get charged. Just read the forums. Here's a sample:

https://photography-on-the.net …t=858475&highli​ght=school

Total time wasted by this girl on this photoshoot: maybe about five seconds? How long does it take you to say the words "That's what my mum told me to do?"

Total time wasted by parents having to return unwanted photos and proofs: much more than five seconds.


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Apr 12, 2013 01:56 |  #54

drvnbysound wrote in post #15818600 (external link)
Here are the "high points" from the OP that had me come to my opinion of disrespectful:

My daughter knowing that we don't buy school pictures decided to be creative today. She didn't tell her mother and I of her plans until dinner today (after the deed was done).

...give me a break. The parents don't normally buy school pictures. The daughter decided to be creative and give get a photo taken that her parents would want. And from the reaction of the OP that is exactly what she did. She turned them into paying customers. Oh my goodness how disrespectful can you get?

A friend of hers nearly took 10 minutes of the poor man's time by over exaggerating every thing he asked. "Head back....she stared at the ceiling, head down a little....stare at toes, you get the idea". Finally in exasperation he took a shot with her looking nearly backward, staring at the ceiling with a goofy ass grin.

This "friend" wasn't the friends daughter. I've conceded this action wasn't right. But I asked what the daughter did that was disrespectful and the actions of her "friend" are not her responsibility. Do the words "goofy assed grin" sound like the words of a teenage girl or the words of a proud father passing on a funny anecdote about his daughter?

Besides: do you know how long ten minutes actually is? Do you really believe the friend took up ten minutes of the photographers time?

...these pictures are going to be so bad...

Again: not the daughter being disrespectful...just the opinion of the OP.


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drvnbysound
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Apr 12, 2013 02:29 |  #55

This is where we will have to agree to disagree...

At 11-13, I highly doubt that her intention was to be creative enough to have her parents want to buy pictures of her - particularly when she knows they already take pictures of her. Knowing that her parents don't usually buy the pictures, I feel that the daughter responded in a manner to be disrespectful; just a typical adolescent acting out. However, it is the parent(s) opinion [and maybe yours too] that they thought this act was 'cute' [my word not theirs].

I understand that the friend is responsible for herself. However, based on the context of the story, I don't think the friend would have acted this way had the daughter not started it. Additionally, the OP went on to say how he could only imagine how many of the pictures after that turned out... knowing that other kids continued to follow suit. Again, yes, they are responsible for themselves, but many young kids will act as followers... there was a leader.

And to know that the OP thinks it's funny that other pictures are going to be "so bad" because of this... yeah, I don't really have anything else to say.


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Apr 12, 2013 02:29 |  #56

If this is the worst thing that happened to that photog that day, then it was probably a good day. He'll get more grief from some parent who later complains that he didn't comb the kid's hair.

I can't condone the kid who was completely uncooperative and wasted 10 minutes of everyone's time. The teacher should have a talk with that student about her disrespectful behavior, and we shouldn't blame the OP's kid for that.


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Apr 12, 2013 02:44 |  #57

Curtis N wrote in post #15818701 (external link)
If this is the worst thing that happened to that photog that day, then it was probably a good day. He'll get more grief from some parent who later complains that he didn't comb the kid's hair.

I can't condone the kid who was completely uncooperative and wasted 10 minutes of everyone's time. The teacher should have a talk with that student about her disrespectful behavior, and we shouldn't blame the OP's kid for that.

... because no one ever starts it, right? :rolleyes:

I'm not trying to place blame or say that there should be any sort of punishment at all... Heck, I don't know any of these parents or their kids, so at the end of the day I really don't care :confused: I simply read into the story, felt the photographer was disrespected, and stated that I would be disappointed if my child acts this way toward another adult. :cool:


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Apr 12, 2013 02:47 |  #58

drvnbysound wrote in post #15818700 (external link)
This is where we will have to agree to disagree...

At 11-13, I highly doubt that her intention was to be creative enough to have her parents want to buy pictures of her - particularly when she knows they already take pictures of her. Knowing that her parents don't usually buy the pictures, I feel that the daughter responded in a manner to be disrespectful; just a typical adolescent acting out. However, it is the parent(s) opinion [and maybe yours too] that they thought this act was 'cute' [my word not theirs].

...there is nothing in the story to indicate that what you say is true. You've taken the OP's scenario and invented your own to fit the narrative you are trying to paint. Based on the OP's words you have presented nothing that was disrespectful.

And you also have a low opinion of young people. Typical adolescent acting out? This is called "projection." You base this on absolutely nothing at all.

I understand that the friend is responsible for herself. However, based on the context of the story, I don't think the friend would have acted this way had the daughter not started it.

So as I said: this isn't an example of the daughter being disrespectful. And you have no idea of what actually happened: I doubt the whole thing lasted more than a minute and I bet you that the photographer actually got the shot.

Additionally, the OP went on to say how he could only imagine how many of the pictures after that turned out... knowing that other kids continued to follow suit. Again, yes, they are responsible for themselves, but many young kids will act as followers... there was a leader.

And this paragraph here, proves my point yet again, that people are taking this story entirely too seriously. The daughter told a story to her dad. The story made her parents crack up laughing, because it was funny. They told it on the internet, because it actually was funny. A bunch of photographers project their own negative experiences onto a pretty harmless obviously embellished anecdote and turn it into an enormous drama. When asked to point out what the girl said that was actually disrespectful everyone says "BYE!" and leaves the thread. It least you managed to stick around.

And to know that the OP thinks it's funny that other pictures are going to be "so bad" because of this... yeah, I don't really have anything else to say.

I doubt the pictures were really bad. But anyway, it looks like you are leaving, so "BYE!" to you too!


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Apr 12, 2013 02:52 |  #59

drvnbysound wrote in post #15818719 (external link)
... because no one ever starts it, right? :rolleyes:

No.

This is what they call a "teachable moment." You sit the kid down and help her understand how her behavior was disrespectful and wasted everyone's time. And if she says, "But she started it!" Then you have another teachable moment about taking responsibility for your own actions and decisions.


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Apr 12, 2013 03:06 |  #60

I seem to have interpreted the original story differently here as I didn't think it was anything to do with deliberately wasting a photographers time because her dad was better. I also didn't think it was an attempt by the daughter to do something different her parents would love and hopefully get them to actually buy a photo. I just thought it was a young girl having a bit of a giggle/doing something different because she knew she wasn't ruining anything that her dad would be purchasing anyway.

I doubt she even thought a whole bunch of other people would then copy nor do I agree you can lump responsibility for that on her.

I have to confess I did the same pretty much every year when I was at school. My parents could never afford the actual photos but everyone had to have them taken anyway so me and my brothers would pull silly faces or poses. We knew we weren't ruining any photo that was going to make the photographer any money and it really didn't waste any time as it took no longer than being sat down and posed for the genuine photo. If anyone really started wasting time the photographer just went and got a teacher to come and get things back in order and I would have thought that would have happened here too.


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Hope my daughter didn't ruin this photographers day too badly.
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