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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 14 Apr 2013 (Sunday) 01:14
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Sharpness - To much emphasis on this or justified source of unhappiness?

 
coyoteboy
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Apr 16, 2013 12:59 |  #151

The story in the picture should matter more than the technique used.

Unless of course, one takes enjoyment from shooting ISO chart and ducks in ponds.

You're completely missing the point, to my mind (either deliberately or not, I can't tell). The point is that if you don't have equipment capable of resolving as much detail as practically possible you're losing POTENTIAL information. Information you could choose to lose for effect, choose to be highlighted by contrasting with a blurred section of the image, or choose to use as sharp as a knife across the board. Without that information you're at a disadvantage when creating your story, regardless of what that is, unless your story is "vaseline on a lens".

Time spent assembling a system and looking at test charts takes away from shooting. It doesn't happen to all, but SOME seem to focus on gear so much that spend years chasing the "perfect system" shooting nothing but test charts.

Do you genuinely believe that or are you just posting it for humour? I get upset over sharpness. I've posted test charts and shot them, on half a dozen lenses. I've spent probably 2-3 hours a night for a week obsessing over it so I could make an informed decision. I then used that decision to give me the hardware I wanted to get the shots I wanted. So a grand total of what 15 hours, time which I couldn't have been shooting as it was long dark evenings where my favourite subjects were not visible, making a good choice. So that I could then spend the whole summer shooting happily. Yep, really daft idea that.
Of course to anyone on a forum it just looks like I come on forums discussing sharpness and lens qualities, it's not their fault they don't see the rest of my life, but they still choose to judge. People on forums make a lot of assumptions and judgements about people they don't know, then try to force their own views on them instead of answering the questions. When I asked about specific improvements (lens and body related) I got lots of people saying "concentrate on your skills, it's not the lens it's the photographer" despite me never posting a shot for judgement or suggesting how confident I am skills-wise - I'm sure it's in good intention, but ultimately has nothing to do with what I asked. I asked about specific hardware and it's capability, I didn't ask for a skills critique.


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ejenner
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Apr 16, 2013 13:16 as a reply to  @ coyoteboy's post |  #152

I've changed my mind. I was thinking sharpness in general, not just a particular lens's sharpness.

I think it is overrated based on this thread. Important yes, but not the #1 reason I bought any of my lenses. I didn't even replace the 18 -55 kit lens with the 17-40 for sharpness (and a good thing too).

Checking lenses are not waaay out of spec though seems like a good idea - I've been bitten. I wish quality lenses could be almost guaranteed to be defect free, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Realizing that you 17-40 is decentered when you make your first print after coming back from vacation is not a nice feeling.


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DocFrankenstein
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Apr 16, 2013 13:48 |  #153

coyoteboy wrote in post #15834234 (external link)
You're completely missing the point, to my mind (either deliberately or not, I can't tell). The point is that if you don't have equipment capable of resolving as much detail as practically possible you're losing POTENTIAL information. Information you could choose to lose for effect, choose to be highlighted by contrasting with a blurred section of the image, or choose to use as sharp as a knife across the board. Without that information you're at a disadvantage when creating your story, regardless of what that is, unless your story is "vaseline on a lens".

That extra potential information which is missed adds nothing to the story. It's like printing a book in higher resolution. Yes, the letters are sharper, but the content is the same.

Do you genuinely believe that or are you just posting it for humour? I get upset over sharpness. I've posted test charts...

It's not about YOU personally. Let me highlight:

It doesn't happen to all, but SOME seem to focus on gear so much that spend years chasing the "perfect system" shooting nothing but test charts

Photography means different things to different people.

Thank you for the entertaining discussion.


National Sarcasm Society. Like we need your support.

  
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w0m
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Apr 16, 2013 14:51 |  #154

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #15834406 (external link)
That extra potential information which is missed adds nothing to the story. It's like printing a book in higher resolution. Yes, the letters are sharper, but the content is the same.

Assuming you wrote the book correctly the first time and don't need to go in and revise it after the fact. If you are a 'get it right in camera or not at all' purist; then I do suppose it doesn't matter too much (as long as base sharpness is 'good enough')


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coyoteboy
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Apr 16, 2013 16:30 |  #155

That extra potential information which is missed adds nothing to the story. It's like printing a book in higher resolution. Yes, the letters are sharper, but the content is the same.

Not really, poor example, though if you want to continue that analogy - what if a reader of the book wanted to assess what font was used, or was hard of sight? Using a soft lens is like painting a picture but with 8 colours - you could make it work and still tell the tale, but it might well be better with 800 (though not necessarily of course).

It's not about YOU personally. Let me highlight:

I never said it was, I used me as an example of why your thought didn't fit all and why the apparent over-emphasis might appears as such (and seem more frequent than seems sensible) in a forum situation.

My point still stands though, it makes no sense to throw away information before you have had chance to decide if you want it or not.


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DreDaze
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Apr 16, 2013 19:45 |  #156

agedbriar wrote in post #15834222 (external link)
An image where sharpness is the main story-teller.

the thing is...at that size that you're posting it...it could be soft, and it still works for here...


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DocFrankenstein
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Apr 16, 2013 21:20 |  #157

DreDaze wrote in post #15835704 (external link)
the thing is...at that size that you're posting it...it could be soft, and it still works for here...

Also, if sharpness is the main storyteller, one could just give more contrasty light and the "main story" is going to be about 100 times more pronounced, even with a kit lens.


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Bear ­ Dale
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Apr 16, 2013 21:23 |  #158

When I first joined POTN, I lost count of the number of Prime vs Zoom threads and all the prime aficionados claimed that primes where sharper (and thus better) than zooms.


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icacphotography
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Apr 16, 2013 21:36 |  #159

hollis_f wrote in post #15825972 (external link)
I can always soften an image from a sharp lens (indeed, most days it seems I can do it without really trying). But I've yet to find a way to sharpen an image from a soft lens.

Ding Ding Ding we have a winner. This has always been my thought as well. If I'm going for a soft focus look I can do it one of two ways. Either shoot a lens that's super sharp and use LR presets to apply an SF look or I can use filters or buy a 135 2.8SF just for this particular purpose. I personally think that in static shots sharpness is a major factor but in some cases depending upon subject matter blur is actually a wanted thing. Say in high speed air show photography to get a sense of speed I'll purposefully shoot a slower shutter speed to blur the prop of an old warbird or if I'm shooting a jet aerobatic team doing a high speed cross I'll get the front jet in focus and purposefully blur the back jet to create the sense of movement in the photo.

I think at the end of the day sharpness is desired in most photography it's all about WHAT parts of the image are sharp as of course using composition and bokeh and such are integral to creating the perfect image


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Charlie
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Apr 16, 2013 21:45 |  #160

DreDaze wrote in post #15835704 (external link)
the thing is...at that size that you're posting it...it could be soft, and it still works for here...

exactly.... for all we know, a 2mp file can work with that particular image.


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CountryBoy
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Apr 16, 2013 23:57 |  #161

The degree of sharpness between lens are not all that great today . Not worth arguing or worrying about ..


Hi

  
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CAL ­ Imagery
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Apr 16, 2013 23:58 |  #162

My Zeiss is stupid sharp and I am very happy for that.


Christian

  
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Bear ­ Dale
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Apr 17, 2013 00:03 |  #163

CountryBoy wrote in post #15836486 (external link)
The degree of sharpness between lens are not all that great today . Not worth arguing or worrying about ..

SO many people, so many threads.....disagree with that opinion though.


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snake0ape
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Apr 17, 2013 00:09 |  #164

I rather have bokeh and subject and edge separation than ultimate sharpness due to resolution. If ultimate sharpness is your happiness, why get those expensive lens. Any modern f8 lens is sharper than an L lens wide open. It depends on what you shoot.


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agedbriar
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Apr 17, 2013 02:39 |  #165

Should I cancel the 135/2 order then?




  
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Sharpness - To much emphasis on this or justified source of unhappiness?
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