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Thread started 12 Apr 2013 (Friday) 11:56
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Man arrested for filming police, phone said to be a WEAPON

 
RTPVid
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Apr 19, 2013 12:23 |  #46

koala yummies wrote in post #15845513 (external link)
...Photographing, videotaping and documenting the police by the public is the only way to ensure that the trust placed in law enforcement by the people they are sworn to protect and the laws they are sworn to uphold, are not violated or abused...

Really? The ONLY way? Lord, what ever did we do before every phone was a camera! :rolleyes:


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David ­ Arbogast
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Apr 19, 2013 13:21 |  #47

koala yummies wrote in post #15845513 (external link)
Photographing, videotaping and documenting the police by the public is the only way to ensure that the trust placed in law enforcement by the people they are sworn to protect and the laws they are sworn to uphold, are not violated or abused.

Indeed. It may not be "the only way", but our society needs checks and balances at every level, and cameras are an exceptionally good at providing checks and balances in holding authorities-gone-bad accountable.


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DocFrankenstein
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Apr 19, 2013 13:35 |  #48

Another bubble girl. I'm all for filming as a fundamental part of people monitoring the state, but if you're going to film cops at least try to get an arrest with a takedown or a high speed chase.

If you shove a camera in their face when all they're doing is writing a ticket, you're not being a responsible citizen. You're just being annoying.

It's like teasing the palace guard in london trying to prove the queen is evil.


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CountryBoy
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Apr 19, 2013 14:25 |  #49

tkbslc wrote in post #15821701 (external link)
From the cops point of view, he was a belligerent law breaker who couldn't comply with simple directions. Misbehaving children get their toys taken away.

Very true ! If they hadn't been breaking the law , this would not have happened ...


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koala ­ yummies
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Apr 19, 2013 14:39 |  #50

RTPVid wrote in post #15845531 (external link)
Really? The ONLY way? Lord, what ever did we do before every phone was a camera! :rolleyes:

To ensure. Yes. The other checks and balances only do so much, but having the very people themselves doing it, ensures.

Thanks for that response. I appreciate the uselessness of your sarcastic post. Contribute nothing.

You ask (not sure why you asked the Lord), what we did before every phone was a camera. Simple, law enforcement was able to get away with more abuses of power, injustice was more prevalent, crooked law enforcement was able to get away with more wrongdoing, more journalists and innocent citizens were wrongfully arrested under bogus resisting charges.

Now take two words from this post, bold and underline them and completely miss the entire point of the post as whole with a useless sarcastic comment. Then roll your eyes.


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RTPVid
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Apr 19, 2013 15:00 |  #51

koala yummies wrote in post #15845969 (external link)
To ensure. Yes. The other checks and balances only do so much, but having the very people themselves doing it, ensures.

Thanks for that response. I appreciate the uselessness of your sarcastic post. Contribute nothing.

You ask (not sure why you asked the Lord), what we did before every phone was a camera. Simple, law enforcement was able to get away with more abuses of power, injustice was more prevalent, crooked law enforcement was able to get away with more wrongdoing, more journalists and innocent citizens were wrongfully arrested under bogus resisting charges.

Now take two words from this post, bold and underline them and completely miss the entire point of the post as whole with a useless sarcastic comment. Then roll your eyes.

BS.

Our liberties are MUCH more at risk, even disappearing daily, in this age of fear-induced legislative demagoguing than they ever were in the days of the bare light bulbs and rubber hoses.

Not to mention silly hyperbole, such as your post that I quoted.

And, speaking of useless comments, yours is nothing but a childish retort.

These so-called citizen videos can many times be more misleading than helpful. They are actually not that useful at all in the bigger picture.


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koala ­ yummies
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Apr 19, 2013 15:30 as a reply to  @ RTPVid's post |  #52

Incorrigible.

http://en.wikipedia.or​g …cases_of_police​_brutality (external link)

http://en.wikipedia.or​g …cers_in_the_Uni​ted_States (external link)

http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Category:Filmed​_deaths (external link)

Recent case in which police brutality lead to an innocent man's death, which was videotaped. The videotape and recording was the staple of the case.

http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_​Thomas (external link)

Tom would rather everyone put down the cameras and not exercise your first amendment rights.

The ACLU is on the side of the public documenting law enforcement. Not much more needs to be said.

Thank you NPPA and ACLU. Protecting the rights of the public and photographers.


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RTPVid
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Apr 19, 2013 15:54 |  #53

koala yummies wrote in post #15846163 (external link)
....Tom would rather everyone put down the cameras and not exercise your first amendment rights.....

Oh, really? You just can't stop with the silly hyperbole, can you?

Is it possible for you to make a point without hyperbole?

Putting it another way, how the hell do you get that out of ANYTHING I wrote?

Quit making stuff up. If you can't make your point without false accusations, just stop replying altogether.


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gibbit1
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Apr 19, 2013 15:56 |  #54

I'm going to chime in here. I'm a law enforcement officer, as some of you know, and also an instructor for my department. One thing I hammer into my students is that they should always act as if they're on camera, because they probably are. As long as you're following policy, you have nothing to fear. If you don't like being filmed, you better get over it, because it's only getting easier and easier to record everything you do. If they physically get in your way, that's another issue, but if they're on the sidelines taping the show, all you can do is smile and try to show your good side.

As far as the offenders being jerks, that's another thing that you better get used to. I've told every officer that brought someone in "because he had a bad attitude" that he's risking his job, and more. They MUST learn to deal with people professionally and with a calm demeanor. Lots of those people "with a bad attitude" are just trying to set you up so they can sue you and the department. Don't get baited into doing something stupid.

One more thing. Yes, cell phones can be converted to weapons. If that were the case here, do you think the guy would flaunt the phone in front of the officer by recording him? No. He'd pretend to be on a call, or hide it completely. Common sense goes a long way.

The cop in the story is out of line, and he'll probably get a nice smack on the wrist for it. You won't hear about that, but it'll most definitely happen. Hopefully that will be enough to send the lesson home.


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Apr 19, 2013 16:01 |  #55
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Hey, i really respected reading that.^^^

Thank you.


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koala ­ yummies
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Apr 19, 2013 16:05 |  #56

RTPVid wrote in post #15846268 (external link)
Putting it another way, how the hell do you get that out of ANYTHING I wrote?

It's things that you have said, things like this:

RTPVid wrote in post #15846049 (external link)
These so-called citizen videos can many times be more misleading than helpful. They are actually not that useful at all in the bigger picture.

Saying that the citizen videos are not at all useful. (using the qualifier 'so-called' before citizen is a bit disconcerting, but not part of the current discussion). You accuse me of hyperbole, while at the same time using blanket statements and broad generalizations, 'many times more misleading', 'not useful at all in the bigger picture'. You may need more paint, because that's a large brush you're using.

The NPPA and ACLU say that they are useful and constantly argue such. These are our rights. You don't have to exercise them. But there are hundreds of cases that can be cited in which they were useful, incredibly useful in bringing an injustice to light.

I'm not sure I'd ever want to be debating against an issue that the ACLU supports.


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Apr 19, 2013 16:12 |  #57

koala yummies wrote in post #15846163 (external link)
Recent case in which police brutality lead to an innocent man's death, which was videotaped. The videotape and recording was the staple of the case.

http://en.wikipedia.or​g/wiki/Death_of_Kelly_​Thomas (external link)

What does THIS has to do with a cop being filmed writing a ticket?

It looks like the ROs need more training cuffing people. Techniques exist, but there's no training. Six guys have a guy pinned and after five minutes one genius asks: "So uh... what's the strategy? What do we do now?" :rolleyes:

Do you realize that there's just a couple of inches between the resisting hand and the gun on the belt of the cop? Things get turned around quickly.

http://en.wikipedia.or​g …illed_in_the_li​ne_of_duty (external link)


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koala ­ yummies
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Apr 19, 2013 16:15 |  #58

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #15846330 (external link)
What does THIS has to do with a cop being filmed writing a ticket?

The previous four pages of debate on whether or not documenting law enforcement should be done, the debate on its usefulness, ramifications and examples in which filming police has yielded justice. It pretty much has everything to do with this thread. That video tape and recording informed the public and sparked massive protests and calls for investigation. That video and recording led to FBI involvement. Please let me know if you still do not see the relevant connection between a discussion (here) on someone filming the police and being wrongfully arrested for doing so, and a major case in which a video tape and recording of an arrest gone wrong that lead to the death of an innocent man and subsequent arrest and termination of the law enforcement officers involved.


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DocFrankenstein
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Apr 19, 2013 16:23 |  #59

koala yummies wrote in post #15846348 (external link)
The previous four pages of debate on whether or not documenting law enforcement should be done, the debate on its usefulness, ramifications and examples in which filming police has yielded justice. It pretty much has everything to do with this thread. That video tape and recording informed the public and sparked massive protests and calls for investigation. That video and recording led to FBI involvement. Please let me know if you still do not see the relevant connection between a discussion on someone filming the police and being wrongfully arrested for doing so, and a major case in which a video tape and recording of an arrest gone wrong that lead to the death of an innocent man and subsequent arrest and termination of the law enforcement officers involved.

Filming an arrest MAY prove useful.

Filming yourself getting a ticket for a minor infraction is useless.


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RTPVid
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Apr 19, 2013 16:28 |  #60

koala yummies wrote in post #15846306 (external link)
It's things that you have said, things like this:

Saying that the citizen videos are not at all useful. (using the qualifier 'so-called' before citizen is a bit disconcerting, but not part of the current discussion). You accuse me of hyperbole, while at the same time using blanket statements and broad generalizations, 'many times more misleading', 'not useful at all in the bigger picture'. You may need more paint, because that's a large brush you're using.

The NPPA and ACLU say that they are useful and constantly argue such. These are our rights. You don't have to exercise them. But there are hundreds of cases that can be cited in which they were useful, incredibly useful in bringing an injustice to light.

I'm not sure I'd ever want to be debating against an issue that the ACLU supports.

OK, I guess reading comprehension is not your strong suit. Not much more to be said, I guess.


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