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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 23 Apr 2013 (Tuesday) 16:55
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Location lighting for sports photography.

 
Joe.Recon
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Apr 23, 2013 16:55 |  #1

Hey all, need some quick advice.

I want to dive into the action/sports photography world. My main subjects would be football, baseball, basketball and golf. I want to photograph a single subject in his environment as a planed shot, hence not during actual game. Kind of an advertising shot.

I was thinking of buying the new Elinchrom Quadra AS RX pro pack (external link).

They advertise very short flash rates to stop action and that seems fine but I need your advice. Yes I want to stay with Elinchrom simply because I already own studio lights and 6 diff softboxes.

So what do you think?


Canon 5D MkIII powered through the following Canon lenses: 16-35 f2.8 L MkII, 24-70 f2.8 L MkII, 70-200 f2.8 L MkII, 17mm TS-E f4 L, 24mm TS-E f2.8 L MkII and 85mm f1.2 L MkII.
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Apr 23, 2013 17:02 |  #2

i'm not a sports photog, but no golfer is going to allow you to use a flash.

generally football and baseball are too far away for flash to be of much effect.

often basketball games restrict flash use.

tthe stop action/short duration they are talking about are for VERY fast moving objects, things that are faster than most humans.


finally, i may be off base on any of these issues. :D
but i don't think i am.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
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Aressem
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Apr 23, 2013 17:07 |  #3

Joe.Recon wrote in post #15859618 (external link)
Hey all, need some quick advice.

I want to dive into the action/sports photography world. My main subjects would be football, baseball, basketball and golf. I want to photograph a single subject in his environment.

I was thinking of buying the new Elinchrom Quadra AS RX pro pack (external link).

They advertise very short flash rates to stop action and that seems fine but I need your advice. Yes I want to stay with Elinchrom simply because I already own studio lights and 6 diff softboxes.

So what do you think?

I own the Elinchrom Ranger Speed AS and shoot ski/snowboarding primarily. With the knowledge I have now I think I would have gone a different route. I would seriously consider the PCB Einstein + Vagabond Mini combo. Or, go with a much slower strobe and take advantage of Hypersync. I think you will discover the rated t.5 flash durations of the quadra to be an exaggeration and will find yourself disappointed after spending a lot of money. I've found a way (a hack) to make my ranger work for me although this "hack" won't work for the majority of others. Just my 2 cents. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I've done a ridiculous amount of research on the topic.


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Joe.Recon
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Apr 23, 2013 17:09 as a reply to  @ Left Handed Brisket's post |  #4

I want to photograph a single subject in his environment as a planed shot, hence not during actual game. Kind of an advertising shot.

I would not bother players at all as they would be there for the actual planned shoot


Canon 5D MkIII powered through the following Canon lenses: 16-35 f2.8 L MkII, 24-70 f2.8 L MkII, 70-200 f2.8 L MkII, 17mm TS-E f4 L, 24mm TS-E f2.8 L MkII and 85mm f1.2 L MkII.
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Aressem
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Apr 23, 2013 17:26 |  #5

hes gone wrote in post #15859644 (external link)
=he's gone;15859644]i'm not a sports photog, but no golfer is going to allow you to use a flash.

generally football and baseball are too far away for flash to be of much effect.

often basketball games restrict flash use.

tthe stop action/short duration they are talking about are for VERY fast moving objects, things that are faster than most humans.


finally, i may be off base on any of these issues. :D
but i don't think i am.

I laughed when I read this. Right. Because he's gonna spend $1500 on portable lighting to take photos of strangers.... O.o

And yes, you are off. I hate it when people preach information they've read somewhere with no real world experience to back it up. A speedlite will freeze a moving bullet. Will most portable strobes that claim they have super short flash durations? Heck no! First off because they list t.5 durations as opposed to t.1 (roughly 3x difference) and second because they are so many other factors. The biggest one being ambient light. If you shoot in midday sun on a snowy mountain like me, forget about freezing anything without a few tricks up your sleeve. Honestly. Speedlites are called speedlites because the are FAST (short duration). Just how fast? 1/30,000+. Now that's fast. The OP is talking about portable studio strobes though. You can't expect that sort of stopping power out of big strobes on a budget. Sorry for ranting. It just drives me nuts when people give advice that is totally inaccurate.


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Joe.Recon
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Apr 23, 2013 17:34 |  #6

Aressem wrote in post #15859657 (external link)
I own the Elinchrom Ranger Speed AS and shoot ski/snowboarding primarily. With the knowledge I have now I think I would have gone a different route. I would seriously consider the PCB Einstein + Vagabond Mini combo. Or, go with a much slower strobe and take advantage of Hypersync. I think you will discover the rated t.5 flash durations of the quadra to be an exaggeration and will find yourself disappointed after spending a lot of money. I've found a way (a hack) to make my ranger work for me although this "hack" won't work for the majority of others. Just my 2 cents. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I've done a ridiculous amount of research on the topic.

Reading up on Einsteins and Vagabond mini. Seems like a good deal but I would have to invest in a new softbox kit also...


Canon 5D MkIII powered through the following Canon lenses: 16-35 f2.8 L MkII, 24-70 f2.8 L MkII, 70-200 f2.8 L MkII, 17mm TS-E f4 L, 24mm TS-E f2.8 L MkII and 85mm f1.2 L MkII.
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Aressem
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Apr 23, 2013 17:37 |  #7

Joe.Recon wrote in post #15859744 (external link)
Reading up on Einsteins and Vagabond mini. Seems like a good deal but I would have to invest in a new softbox kit also...

Paul C. Buff has a full system of affordable modifiers not to mention wireless triggers/receivers which I own and use with my Elinchrom Ranger.


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Joe.Recon
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Apr 23, 2013 17:41 |  #8

Aressem wrote in post #15859759 (external link)
Paul C. Buff has a full system of affordable modifiers not to mention wireless triggers/receivers which I own and use with my Elinchrom Ranger.

The Elinchrom kit is quite expensive and I love the D Lite4 and the BRX500s I have....that's why I am inclined to keep with Elinchrom but the reviews I am reading following your post are quite good about the PCBs


Canon 5D MkIII powered through the following Canon lenses: 16-35 f2.8 L MkII, 24-70 f2.8 L MkII, 70-200 f2.8 L MkII, 17mm TS-E f4 L, 24mm TS-E f2.8 L MkII and 85mm f1.2 L MkII.
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Joe.Recon
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Apr 23, 2013 17:43 as a reply to  @ Joe.Recon's post |  #9

Elinchroms are 400w and PCB is a 640W....whats the diff? how is that going to affect me?


Canon 5D MkIII powered through the following Canon lenses: 16-35 f2.8 L MkII, 24-70 f2.8 L MkII, 70-200 f2.8 L MkII, 17mm TS-E f4 L, 24mm TS-E f2.8 L MkII and 85mm f1.2 L MkII.
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Apr 23, 2013 17:49 |  #10

Aressem wrote in post #15859714 (external link)
I laughed when I read this. Right. Because he's gonna spend $1500 on portable lighting to take photos of strangers.... O.o

And yes, you are off. I hate it when people preach information they've read somewhere with no real world experience to back it up. A speedlite will freeze a moving bullet. Will most portable strobes that claim they have super short flash durations? Heck no! First off because they list t.5 durations as opposed to t.1 (roughly 3x difference) and second because they are so many other factors. The biggest one being ambient light. If you shoot in midday sun on a snowy mountain like me, forget about freezing anything without a few tricks up your sleeve. Honestly. Speedlites are called speedlites because the are FAST (short duration). Just how fast? 1/30,000+. Now that's fast. The OP is talking about portable studio strobes though. You can't expect that sort of stopping power out of big strobes on a budget. Sorry for ranting. It just drives me nuts when people give advice that is totally inaccurate.

take it easy on me. in this medium there is always the potential for misunderstanding. it seems you've been around long enough to realize there are a lot of people here that know way less than me, lol. i was just trying to help.

i keyed in on "sports shots" and went with the understanding it was for actual sports, not posed shots.

there are plenty of people here and elsewhere who spend thousands on the latest equipment, but don't know jack about photography. spending 1500 bucks means nothing to some.

cheers.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
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Aressem
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Apr 23, 2013 18:02 |  #11

Joe.Recon wrote in post #15859783 (external link)
Elinchroms are 400w and PCB is a 640W....whats the diff? how is that going to affect me?

You get more for your money. And not just power. You mentioned sports. The Einstein has stopping power. Serious stopping power. The Einstein actually has the least amount of stopping power at full power of 640 W/s whereas most studio stones have the fastest or shortest duration at full power. As you dial the power down, the flash duration shortens, giving you more and more stopping power. All the way up to 1/10,000 second t.1. Since you opted for the Quadra which is 400 watts, I assume you wont actually need the full 640 Ws of the Einstein. Therefore, if you dial the Einstein down to half power, you'll certainly have enough stopping power in most environments. The vagabond mini and Einstein are cheap, extremely portable and just offer more in my opinion.


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Joe.Recon
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Apr 23, 2013 18:29 |  #12

Aressem wrote in post #15859833 (external link)
You get more for your money. And not just power. You mentioned sports. The Einstein has stopping power. Serious stopping power. The Einstein actually has the least amount of stopping power at full power of 640 W/s whereas most studio stones have the fastest or shortest duration at full power. As you dial the power down, the flash duration shortens, giving you more and more stopping power. All the way up to 1/10,000 second t.1. Since you opted for the Quadra which is 400 watts, I assume you wont actually need the full 640 Ws of the Einstein. Therefore, if you dial the Einstein down to half power, you'll certainly have enough stopping power in most environments. The vagabond mini and Einstein are cheap, extremely portable and just offer more in my opinion.

It would certainly seem like they do offer more. I will definitaly have a look into it and do some more reading before dishing out 1500$ to 2000$. Thank you for your opinion.


Canon 5D MkIII powered through the following Canon lenses: 16-35 f2.8 L MkII, 24-70 f2.8 L MkII, 70-200 f2.8 L MkII, 17mm TS-E f4 L, 24mm TS-E f2.8 L MkII and 85mm f1.2 L MkII.
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fastburn430
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Apr 23, 2013 19:34 |  #13

A lot of good info in this thread.


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dmward
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Apr 23, 2013 20:31 |  #14

If you have a Elinchrom modifiers you want to use with Einsteins, you can get a Kacey Elinchrom mount with an Einstein adapter ring. It works like a charm for mounting the Elinchrom modifiers on the Einsteins.


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Joe.Recon
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Apr 23, 2013 22:09 |  #15

dmward wrote in post #15860335 (external link)
If you have a Elinchrom modifiers you want to use with Einsteins, you can get a Kacey Elinchrom mount with an Einstein adapter ring. It works like a charm for mounting the Elinchrom modifiers on the Einsteins.

Exellent ! Thank you very much!


Canon 5D MkIII powered through the following Canon lenses: 16-35 f2.8 L MkII, 24-70 f2.8 L MkII, 70-200 f2.8 L MkII, 17mm TS-E f4 L, 24mm TS-E f2.8 L MkII and 85mm f1.2 L MkII.
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Location lighting for sports photography.
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