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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 23 Apr 2013 (Tuesday) 15:39
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Another "help me choose a setup" thread

 
mcoomer
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Apr 23, 2013 15:39 |  #1

I have the gear in my sig and now I'm trying to get my flash off camera. I was all set to start this effort by purchasing a couple of ETTL cords, one short and one long, cheap stand, and an umbrella and lightbox setup. I don't do this for a living, shooting family casual and family event photos, so I was going to ride this setup and save money for probably two more flashes and some ETTL radio triggers.

Then I made the mistake of watching Syl Arena's discussion of the 600RT and ST-E3 on B&H TV (YouTube). He basically gushed about them for an hour and a half. From what I can tell, the only downside for what I want to do is that the ST-E3 doesn't have autofocus assist. I'm not sure how big a deal that could be but I do shoot in low light occasionally so I could see that being a potential issue issue. I need to dig a bit deeper on that but aside from that it looks like an attractive setup.

Before we go any further, I don't do this professionally so my paycheck isn't on the line, and I don't need this gear. I might want it, but I don't need it. Which makes more sense?

1) Work with ETTL cords for now and save money for ETTL radios. Buy a set of radios once I saved for them, then add two more 580's and radios over time.

2) Sell the 580, buy a 600 RT, then add an ST-E3 and two more 600's over time.

I see that Canon has refurb 600's right now for $439. If I sell my 580 and buy one I'd be out $100 or so on the one flash. If I buy an ST-E3 at $299, I won't need to buy a TT1 and TT5's at $199 and $225 each. Assuming I'm patient and can find deals on the 600's it seems like that would be the cheaper way to go since I wouldn't need to buy the external radio. Is my reasoning on this correct or not? Which route would you be more likely to take?

Mike


Gripped 5D2, 24-70 f/2.8L, 70-200 f/2.8L II, 580EXII

  
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ksbal
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Apr 23, 2013 16:15 |  #2

keep the 580 and buy a set of YN-622 for $90 or less from the photogadget or the HKYougnuo store on ebay. Learn with these triggers, then if you want to step up and buy bigger/badder/better go for it.

And the YN-622's have focus assist. And there is a wonderful guide under Clive's signature in the main thread about YN-622 triggers right here:
https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1212530


Godox/Flashpoint r2 system, plus some canon stuff.

  
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mcoomer
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Apr 23, 2013 18:27 |  #3

I appreciate where your advice is coming from, and if I were new to cameras I'd be more inclined to follow it, but this is a straight 580 or 600 question. I've been shooting since my old AE-1 was relatively state of the art tech and B&W film could be bought bulk and rolled onto your own canisters. This is the nicest setup that I've ever owned and unless I find a smoking bargain on a 5D3 I'll probably have it for quite some time. I'm looking for a lighting setup that plays well together and will last for a good long time. I want to keep with Canon gear too simply because that's all I've ever used and it's never failed me.

Probably overkill but I'm not breaking the bank and I like nice toys so...


Gripped 5D2, 24-70 f/2.8L, 70-200 f/2.8L II, 580EXII

  
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MakisM1
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Apr 23, 2013 21:58 |  #4

The reasoning behind buying the 600 would be to use the in-camera control menus. Your camera is too old for taking full advantage of the 600.

I think ksbal gave you sound advise, if you like the setup you can build to a 3 or 4 flash setup and maybe move on to Pocketwizards or equivalent if you don't like the Yongnuos.

On the other hand, if you've made up your mind, go ahead...


Gerry
Canon 5D MkIII/Canon 60D/Canon EF-S 18-200/Canon EF 24-70L USM II/Canon EF 70-200L 2.8 USM II/Canon EF 50 f1.8 II/Σ 8-16/ 430 EXII
OS: Linux Ubuntu/PostProcessing: Darktable/Image Processing: GIMP

  
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mcoomer
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Apr 24, 2013 00:00 |  #5

MakisM1 wrote in post #15860607 (external link)
The reasoning behind buying the 600 would be to use the in-camera control menus. Your camera is too old for taking full advantage of the 600.

Can you fill me in on what functionality is lost? If I can't use them to their full potential than I'd probably lean towards 580's with radio triggers.

Thanks,
Mike


Gripped 5D2, 24-70 f/2.8L, 70-200 f/2.8L II, 580EXII

  
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ksbal
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Apr 24, 2013 08:15 |  #6

Please read up on the YN 622 Guide our good Mr Clive put together:
https://docs.google.co​m …FpqNkpBYXBHajA/​edit?pli=1 (external link)

I know that the reputation of Yongnuo had a huge black eye with their first generation Flashes that were, in a word, unreliable. However the have made huge improvements in their flashes, and the triggers they make have always performed well, and this latest trigger, the 622 gives you about 80-90% of the options a Pocket Wizzard set would, and a few options -like second curtain sync/ af assist- that the RT system from canon doesn't. They are very sophisticated triggers for the money and any problems I've ever had have been operator error, and the very long thread on them seems to be able to solve any problem posted.

A very excellent synopsis I just found is laid out here:
http://www.lightingrum​ours.com …nuo-yn-622-for-canon-2672 (external link)

The out of date info is a pair can be had for $90 or so.. cheaper than about any other ETTL option. I also did my own 'stress test' to see how far I could be away and still trigger them.. I ran out of line of site before I could create a misfire. over 150 feet easy.

The only thing of note.. when the 622 battery dies, it has a stroboscopic death.. so you definitely know!

The biggest downside to the 580ex II vs 600rt is the optical control, instead of radio control, getting these triggers is like upgrading your 580ex II and making it better.


Godox/Flashpoint r2 system, plus some canon stuff.

  
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MakisM1
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Apr 24, 2013 09:54 |  #7

mcoomer wrote in post #15860891 (external link)
Can you fill me in on what functionality is lost? If I can't use them to their full potential than I'd probably lean towards 580's with radio triggers.

Thanks,
Mike

Sorry Mike, I have no personal experience, I read this in some 600 review. It stands to reason though that the in-camera menus of the 5D2 could not have anticipated the functionalities of the 600RT.

If somebody who has both the body and the flash can enlighten us, I think it would be great!


Gerry
Canon 5D MkIII/Canon 60D/Canon EF-S 18-200/Canon EF 24-70L USM II/Canon EF 70-200L 2.8 USM II/Canon EF 50 f1.8 II/Σ 8-16/ 430 EXII
OS: Linux Ubuntu/PostProcessing: Darktable/Image Processing: GIMP

  
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mcoomer
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Apr 24, 2013 09:59 |  #8

No worries...I just ordered the Youngnuo's from Amazon. For $89.99 a set you can't go wrong. If they do what I want, great! If not, I'm not out big bucks.

Mike


Gripped 5D2, 24-70 f/2.8L, 70-200 f/2.8L II, 580EXII

  
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MakisM1
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Apr 24, 2013 10:48 |  #9

Tell us your experience, once you get them, please.


Gerry
Canon 5D MkIII/Canon 60D/Canon EF-S 18-200/Canon EF 24-70L USM II/Canon EF 70-200L 2.8 USM II/Canon EF 50 f1.8 II/Σ 8-16/ 430 EXII
OS: Linux Ubuntu/PostProcessing: Darktable/Image Processing: GIMP

  
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ksbal
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Apr 24, 2013 14:43 |  #10

mcoomer wrote in post #15862011 (external link)
No worries...I just ordered the Youngnuo's from Amazon. For $89.99 a set you can't go wrong. If they do what I want, great! If not, I'm not out big bucks.

Mike

Congrats! Please let us know how they work out for you!

(and as a side note.. the AE1-P was my first camera, and I still have my A1 and Elan IIe :lol: and we won't mention how many rolls I re-rolled onto used film canisters!)


Godox/Flashpoint r2 system, plus some canon stuff.

  
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JDeluis
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Apr 24, 2013 21:25 |  #11

ksbal wrote in post #15859485 (external link)
keep the 580 and buy a set of YN-622 for $90 or less from the photogadget or the HKYougnuo store on ebay. Learn with these triggers, then if you want to step up and buy bigger/badder/better go for it.

And the YN-622's have focus assist. And there is a wonderful guide under Clive's signature in the main thread about YN-622 triggers right here:
https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1212530


You just sold me on the YN-622 as well. I'm currently using the the 7D flash to trigger my flash. Thanks. :D


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MakisM1
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Apr 24, 2013 21:28 |  #12

ksbal wrote in post #15863040 (external link)
Congrats! Please let us know how they work out for you!

(and as a side note.. the AE1-P was my first camera, and I still have my A1 and Elan IIe :lol: and we won't mention how many rolls I re-rolled onto used film canisters!)

I still have my Canon FT-b and it is in working order. I also have a Paterson tank for development! All I need is a few cartridges and chemicals... I even have a film scanner...

Aww foggetabouddit...:rolleyes:


Gerry
Canon 5D MkIII/Canon 60D/Canon EF-S 18-200/Canon EF 24-70L USM II/Canon EF 70-200L 2.8 USM II/Canon EF 50 f1.8 II/Σ 8-16/ 430 EXII
OS: Linux Ubuntu/PostProcessing: Darktable/Image Processing: GIMP

  
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drvnbysound
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Apr 24, 2013 21:46 |  #13

I think there may be some misinformation in this thread. I don't own a 5D2, so I can't say for sure...

I have a 50D, and have just received the ST-E3-RT and 600EX-RT earlier this week. When I have the ST-E3-RT on top of my camera, I can use the same flash control menu settings on the back of my camera, which propagate to the ST-E3-RT just fine. I can change manual flash power, FEC, etc. The 'issue' if you call it that, is that this setup is limited to the standard 3 Groups as I've always known them - it operates just as the Canon optical system did before, but now via RF (without the need for 3rd party radio triggers).

New bodies (e.g. 1DX, 5D3) are allowed the new Groups functionality... 5 Groups, each of which can be configured to be ETTL, Manual, etc. independent of each other. Whereas, I have to choose ETTL or Manual, and it applies to all of the Speedlites - this is not an issue for how I shoot.


I use manual exposure settings on the copy machine
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...A few umbrella brackets I own...

  
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ksbal
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Apr 25, 2013 09:18 |  #14

I am in no way saying a 580ex2 + a 622 is better than the RT system with the 600RT flash. I think they are equal in many ways, and then the RT does have things you can't do with the other setup and visa versa.

But for someone starting off camera flash, and wanting to learn without a huge money commitment, and they already have a good canon ex or ex II flash, I think the YN622's are the way to go.


Godox/Flashpoint r2 system, plus some canon stuff.

  
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mcoomer
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Apr 25, 2013 10:09 |  #15

drvnbysound wrote in post #15864391 (external link)
I have a 50D, and have just received the ST-E3-RT and 600EX-RT earlier this week. When I have the ST-E3-RT on top of my camera, I can use the same flash control menu settings on the back of my camera, which propagate to the ST-E3-RT just fine. I can change manual flash power, FEC, etc. The 'issue' if you call it that, is that this setup is limited to the standard 3 Groups as I've always known them - it operates just as the Canon optical system did before, but now via RF (without the need for 3rd party radio triggers).

New bodies (e.g. 1DX, 5D3) are allowed the new Groups functionality... 5 Groups, each of which can be configured to be ETTL, Manual, etc. independent of each other. Whereas, I have to choose ETTL or Manual, and it applies to all of the Speedlites - this is not an issue for how I shoot.

I'm assuming that since the ST-E3 is essentially a 600EX-RT without the flash, anything you can't do on the camera's LCD menu you can simply look at the ST-E3 and set. I wasn't too concerned with operation being an issue. I'll give these Yongnuo's a shot and if they work great. If not then I'll buy some new gear, get the evil eye from the wife (again) and move on. Amazon shipped them already so I should have them in a few days. We'll see.

Mike


Gripped 5D2, 24-70 f/2.8L, 70-200 f/2.8L II, 580EXII

  
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