Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Motorsports Talk 
Thread started 30 Aug 2012 (Thursday) 08:40
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Stupid Spectators

 
Elfstop
Senior Member
Avatar
720 posts
Gallery: 4 photos
Likes: 1
Joined Jun 2012
Location: Tennessee
     
Apr 29, 2013 06:43 |  #46

" Again, as I pointed out before elsewhere, I do this for a living and the people that I deal with in the same line of work, also will not put themselves at risk. There is no shot worth your life or health, especially if you have a family."

Again you are expressing your opinion..IMO it IS worth the risk to get good photos...family or none.Simple. And others that do what you do also take risks...for example the photog with the press pass I was talking about..and he gets paid too. Just stay behind the barrier if you feel it's ok...np.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
aphphoto
Senior Member
455 posts
Likes: 52
Joined Nov 2010
     
Apr 29, 2013 09:15 |  #47

Elfstop wrote in post #15878237 (external link)
Again you are expressing your opinion..IMO it IS worth the risk to get good photos...family or none.Simple. And others that do what you do also take risks...for example the photog with the press pass I was talking about..and he gets paid too. Just stay behind the barrier if you feel it's ok...np.

It's not an opinion it's a statement of fact for working professional motorsport photographers. Every time somebody steps over a boundary or ignores a red area we risk losing access to do our jobs. Every time some bonehead decides it is worth the risk or that he'll get away with it this time we ALL come under review.
It's one thing for a wildlife photographer to decide to walk the edge of the cliff or face down a rhino but it is not at all correct to compare that to Motorsports where we have to deal with sanctioning bodies, track owners and insurance companies. When you step on that cliff you are impacting only yourself. Step past a jersey barrier or ignore a corner worker and you may very well impact ALL working pros and you don't have a right to do that just because YOU think the risk is acceptable.


who gives a rat crap how much gear you can list?

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
lusospeed
Member
Avatar
181 posts
Likes: 10
Joined Dec 2012
Location: pennsylvania
     
Apr 29, 2013 09:40 |  #48

Elfstop wrote in post #15878237 (external link)
Again you are expressing your opinion..IMO it IS worth the risk to get good photos...family or none.Simple.

Fair enough, based on the photo that was shown, if you think that was acceptable then who am I to argue with your opinion. However, that photo is at turn 6 at Road Atlanta. I have shot at Road Atlanta countless numbers of times, and I have sat at an equal countless number of photo meetings. What that individual is doing, beyond being sheer stupidity, is not acceptable, regardless if that person wants to risk his life or not. Also, he jeopardizes the ability of others to do their work, those that have legitimate work there. These kinds of things are what is addressed at photo meetings.

And others that do what you do also take risks...

That is your opinion. You're entitled to your opinion, even though it is wrong. No one doing what I do for a living places themselves in a position to get hurt. The mere fact that you're at a motorsports event is risk enough. beyond that, I can tell you that the people I deal with will not place themselves in harms way.

for example the photog with the press pass I was talking about..and he gets paid too.

I assume this is also your opinion? Here are some FACTS about that photo.

The person that you're referring to in that picture is not a photographer.

The person in that photo was, is , and will not be getting paid for whatever photos he was taking.

How do I know that? Do you think that is my opinion? It's not, what i've stated is a FACT. If that individual was a photographer, he would be wearing a photo vest. Both Grand Am, ALMS, Indycar etc.... all require photographers to wear photo vests. This individual isn't wearing one. If he was being paid to be there and had legitimate work, he would be wearing a vest. The person in that photo actually looks like one of the corner workers, as there is a corner worker station at that turn.

Just stay behind the barrier if you feel it's ok...np.

This isn't a matter of staying behind the barrier because someone wants to feel safe. I'm trying to get you to understand that you can't go to a motorsports event and go where you want to go and do as you please. There are RULES that you need to follow and RESPECT. If you have legitimate work there, you know what these are. This isn't my opinion, this is what is expected. If someone thinks they can go to these places and do as they please, they have no business being there.


http://www.lusospeed.c​om (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Elfstop
Senior Member
Avatar
720 posts
Gallery: 4 photos
Likes: 1
Joined Jun 2012
Location: Tennessee
     
Apr 29, 2013 11:54 |  #49

"That is your opinion. You're entitled to your opinion, even though it is wrong" Really? My opinion can never be wrong. You may not agree but my opinion is mine and mine alone.

Facts?: "The person that you're referring to in that picture is not a photographer"..Real facts...he had a camera so he really is a photographer. Now he may not have been employed by the track but he IS a photographer.

Facts remain....he got down on the track, risked his life and got photos. Bet they were good ones too. I suppose he violated every rule that track has. In YOUR opinion he is stupid...In MY opinion he showed courage and got shots some of you will never get...ever. Bet he got shots that sell too...buyers don't care about the risk involved. Of course he never had the "right" to do that. But if every sports photographer stayed in the stands all we would have to look at would be the same old photos of cars going in circles. Now that's my opinion...like you have yours.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
aphphoto
Senior Member
455 posts
Likes: 52
Joined Nov 2010
     
Apr 29, 2013 12:06 |  #50

Elfstop wrote in post #15879129 (external link)
"That is your opinion. You're entitled to your opinion, even though it is wrong" Really? My opinion can never be wrong. You may not agree but my opinion is mine and mine alone.

Facts?: "The person that you're referring to in that picture is not a photographer"..Real facts...he had a camera so he really is a photographer. Now he may not have been employed by the track but he IS a photographer.

Facts remain....he got down on the track, risked his life and got photos. Bet they were good ones too. I suppose he violated every rule that track has. In YOUR opinion he is stupid...In MY opinion he showed courage and got shots some of you will never get...ever. Bet he got shots that sell too...buyers don't care about the risk involved. Of course he never had the "right" to do that. But if every sports photographer stayed in the stands all we would have to look at would be the same old photos of cars going in circles. Now that's my opinion...like you have yours.

OMG! I don't even know where to begin with how wrong you've got this. Motorsports is not some freaking game of chicken. Showed courage? No, he's an idiot and an irresponsible jerk. Every year we have less credentials available, more red zones we can't shoot from, higher fences further back from the track, etc, etc and it's at least partly due to guys like this and people like you who think courage is somehow involved.


who gives a rat crap how much gear you can list?

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
lusospeed
Member
Avatar
181 posts
Likes: 10
Joined Dec 2012
Location: pennsylvania
     
Apr 29, 2013 12:16 |  #51

Elfstop wrote in post #15879129 (external link)
"That is your opinion. You're entitled to your opinion, even though it is wrong" Really? My opinion can never be wrong. You may not agree but my opinion is mine and mine alone.

Facts?: "The person that you're referring to in that picture is not a photographer"..Real facts...he had a camera so he really is a photographer. Now he may not have been employed by the track but he IS a photographer.

Facts remain....he got down on the track, risked his life and got photos. Bet they were good ones too. I suppose he violated every rule that track has. In YOUR opinion he is stupid...In MY opinion he showed courage and got shots some of you will never get...ever. Bet he got shots that sell too...buyers don't care about the risk involved. Of course he never had the "right" to do that. But if every sports photographer stayed in the stands all we would have to look at would be the same old photos of cars going in circles. Now that's my opinion...like you have yours.

I'm done with you. You're clueless (and I am being kind here) and you're commenting on something you know absolutely nothing about. Your responses demonstrate that. Your responses demonstrate that you have never set foot at a racetrack, if you did, you wouldn't be making the retarded comments you continue to make. As they say, opinions are like you know what. Just because you have an opinion it doesn't mean that it is correct, it is factual, or in any way based on reality. It is also completely asinine to comment on things that you clearly have no experience with. You've had myself and another individual who shoot motorsports tell you, and others, that it is not the way things are done when shooting motorsports. How hard is that to comprehend?

As I pointed out to you, and anyone else for that matter, I do this for a living and for you to base your arguments on uninformed opinions demonstrates where your head is buried.


http://www.lusospeed.c​om (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
lusospeed
Member
Avatar
181 posts
Likes: 10
Joined Dec 2012
Location: pennsylvania
     
Apr 29, 2013 12:23 |  #52

aphphoto wrote in post #15879166 (external link)
OMG! I don't even know where to begin with how wrong you've got this. Motorsports is not some freaking game of chicken. Showed courage? No, he's an idiot and an irresponsible jerk. Every year we have less credentials available, more red zones we can't shoot from, higher fences further back from the track, etc, etc and it's at least partly due to guys like this and people like you who think courage is somehow involved.

You're wasting your time. This is an individual who has never set a foot at a track, and yet chooses to tell the rest of the world how it is. He clearly has a better grasp of the reality of the situation, than those that are actually there, and justifies it all with the notion that its his "opinion." His right to his opinion trumps any form of reality. Unfortunately, as you well know, it is this kind of moronic attitude that has caused access to diminish for credentialed media because of a few selfish idiots.


http://www.lusospeed.c​om (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
GSH
"wetter than an otter's pocket"
Avatar
3,939 posts
Likes: 16
Joined Nov 2004
Location: NE England.
     
Apr 29, 2013 12:55 |  #53

The concept of courage in connection with Motorsports photography is an odd one, to say the least. We're talking about shooting lumps of metal on a Track here, not working in a war zone with bullets pinging off the ground at your feet.

Still, what do i know? i'm only a mug who takes photos of racing cars. Clearly i should defer to a fairly average Bird photographer.


Geoff www.bhppix.co.uk (external link)
_______________
I enjoy taking photos. I don't claim to be any good at it :D

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
aphphoto
Senior Member
455 posts
Likes: 52
Joined Nov 2010
     
Apr 29, 2013 13:04 |  #54

GSH wrote in post #15879341 (external link)
The concept of courage in connection with Motorsports photography is an odd one, to say the least. We're talking about shooting lumps of metal on a Track here, not working in a war zone with bullets pinging off the ground at your feet.

Still, what do i know? i'm only a mug who takes photos of racing cars. Clearly i should defer to a fairly average Bird photographer.

Courage obviously does enter into it but not in the foolhardy sense proposed earlier in this thread by the terminally clueless. Many of us have had close calls even when following all the rules. I've been on the evening news as an Indycar hit the wall right next to me. I kept shooting btw.
Real courage? I'm reminded of the photojournalist who gave a talk at my high school. He showed us the Nikon body / lens that had been shot through while he had it held to his eye. Solid camera that Nikon.


who gives a rat crap how much gear you can list?

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
lusospeed
Member
Avatar
181 posts
Likes: 10
Joined Dec 2012
Location: pennsylvania
     
Apr 29, 2013 15:25 |  #55

Elfstop wrote in post #15879129 (external link)
"[B]

Facts?:Real facts...he had a camera so he really is a photographer. Now he may not have been employed by the track but he IS a photographer.

So taking your logic to its obvious conclusion, if I, or anyone else picks up a scalpel, then applying your flawed logic, it would be safe to assume that we would then be surgeons?

If I pick up a hammer, I must be a carpenter? There are a thousand irrational examples I could give.

Do you see the foolishness of your statement?


http://www.lusospeed.c​om (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
pwm2
"Sorry for being a noob"
Avatar
8,626 posts
Likes: 3
Joined May 2007
Location: Sweden
     
Apr 29, 2013 17:37 |  #56

lusospeed wrote in post #15879858 (external link)
So taking your logic to its obvious conclusion, if I, or anyone else picks up a scalpel, then applying your flawed logic, it would be safe to assume that we would then be surgeons?

If I pick up a hammer, I must be a carpenter? There are a thousand irrational examples I could give.

Do you see the foolishness of your statement?

Note that some titles are protected. You can be a photographer with zero education but you can't be a surgeon without the papers to prove it. So careful with your examples.


5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
10-22 | 16-35/2.8 L II | 20-35 | 24-105 L IS | 28-135 IS | 40/2.8 | 50/1.8 II | 70-200/2.8 L IS | 100/2.8 L IS | 100-400 L IS | Sigma 18-200DC
Speedlite 420EZ | Speedlite 580EX | EF 1.4x II | EF 2x II

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
lusospeed
Member
Avatar
181 posts
Likes: 10
Joined Dec 2012
Location: pennsylvania
     
Apr 29, 2013 18:04 |  #57

pwm2 wrote in post #15880258 (external link)
Note that some titles are protected. You can be a photographer with zero education but you can't be a surgeon without the papers to prove it. So careful with your examples.

The statement wasn't made taking anyone's education into account. This has NOTHING to do with anyone's title or level of education. It has EVERYTHING to do with the ridiculous assertion that by simply having a camera in your hand it implies that you are a photographer.


http://www.lusospeed.c​om (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
agl99
Member
156 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Apr 2013
     
Apr 29, 2013 18:34 as a reply to  @ post 15875450 |  #58

In school I learned to do scuffi ...super close up for fantastic impact, but I don't think this is what they were talking about.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Tom ­ Reichner
"That's what I do."
Avatar
16,588 posts
Gallery: 188 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 6911
Joined Dec 2008
Location: from Pennsylvania, USA, now in Washington state, USA, road trip back and forth a lot
     
Apr 29, 2013 18:38 |  #59

If you take a photograph you are a photographer.
If you do surgery you are a surgeon.
If you play with a baseball you are a baseball player.
If you write a letter, a word, a paragraph, or a book, you are a writer.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Elfstop
Senior Member
Avatar
720 posts
Gallery: 4 photos
Likes: 1
Joined Jun 2012
Location: Tennessee
     
Apr 29, 2013 18:56 |  #60

Well let me sum this up without making a "retarded comment" as you say LUSOSPEED. And that's very childish of you btw. Both you and aphphoto pay attention now...if you want to stay safe and not take chances to get a really good photo then stay in the stands. Let the brave photographers take the good shots. It's ok. And to you GSH I am not trying to qualify my opinion with my photography...I have a camera so therefore I am a photographer. Not a good one like you guys think you are but I get by.
My wife , who IS a sports photographer, came thru and read this thread and said "tell them if they can't run with the big dogs then get back on the porch" Lol. I said don't be so mean and she replied "well that's my opinion...




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

15,362 views & 0 likes for this thread
Stupid Spectators
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Motorsports Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is mercaver
820 guests, 167 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.