Paypal Fee and Buyer Friendliness

This seems pretty cut and dry to me:
https://cms.paypal.com …ement_full&loca​le.x=en_US

icacphotography wrote in post #15895024
paying paypal fees is the cost of doing business. Not only that but why should the buyer have to pay extra for peace of mind? Part of being paid by paypal is that you create with the buyer a delivery contract in that the item is to be delivered as stated and if not the buyer has some recourse.

Asking the buyer to forego that simply because you think they should pay for the peace of mind and asking the buyer to pay EXTRA fees on top of your price to make it absolutely certain you can't scam them is just rude. Not to mention asking people to gift to avoid paying the fees or asking for a 3% surcharge to pay via payapl is against paypal TOS it's all right in the fine print you agree to when you set up an account. Basically it comes down to the 3% is the cost of doing business and if you don't want to have to pay fees then don't accept paypal plain and simple.

Sorry but any buyer that would basically say to me either pay me via gift at one price or pay me at another price to ensure I can't rip you off is nothing but a douche and someone I will completely avoid doing business with. Granted I know that yes that's calling out most of this forum as that seems to be the way the winds blow around here but if truth be told if someone really had a beef with a seller that they never voiced but wanted to get one over all they would have to do is report to paypal every time the seller is asking people to gift and link them to the buyer's sales and bye bye paypal account.

TL;DR Sellers need to stop being cheap SOB's and stop telling sellers they need to pay extra to ensure they don't get scammed.

I understand your points. But guess what, every seller will have a mind on how much he'd like to net. As I mentioned, people just add those fees on top. This is business. This is how you may think before initiate a selling thread.

As we are totally different from ebay, no one is ever trying to say paypal is the only way, thus the paypal fee is not the must of business here, and I don't even call selling some stuffs here to be business.

The mechanism here to trace a seller is fantastic, you find all feedbacks, all his posts, gain a good sense of who is selling things to you. Comparing to ebay.

I can easily add 3% to all items I'm selling, and I believe they are still good prices. But why, I give out the choices, trust me, save us some fees; otherwise, typical way. It is the psychological hint that to add paypal fees is charging them extras, but buyers never thought they have a discount already.

It's only a matter of how you think what I'm doing, right? If you think the price listed should include fees but I'm asking, we're over; but actually what if I claim my price is the one I've deducted the fees to save your money? If you don't want, just a normal price.

Say, I have my exactly like new 50 1.4 on sale for $265. For my point of view, I've deducted the fees out. $265 is the lowest I can do. I can easily make it $272 paypaled. Then you're happy. But I listed one way you can save some money, it is just your choice to do it in a normal way, but I don't think I have done something wrong.

As I'm not pay tax to the sale, I'm not living on this, it's really hard for me to call these as business. Buy and sell are equal, I just can't agree that paypal fees should be eaten by seller especially paypal has no means to be the only way here.

isoMorphic wrote in post #15894637
No Paypal bought Ebay they did not create it and they are two independent companies.

Didn't mean to imply they did. But it's now the same consumer unfriendly culture.
The bigger they are they are the less they respond. Are they independent like say Comcast and NBC!
There's banking culture and there's tech culture. These clowns are not the former!

At the end of the day asking buyers to gift is BS plain and simple. I for one will NEVER EVER gift a seller their money I don't give a sweet flying F^&*$ how long they've been here or how good their feedback is I'm not giving up my buyer protection because they are trying to be cheap. Like I said I think having one price if you're willing to forego buyer protection and a second one for if you want peace of mind is the seller being a cheap SOB!

What difference does it make if you are being asked to pay paypal fees or if they are included in the price already? If I advertise a lens for $1000 plus 2.9% for fees versus the same lens for $1029 without fees, obviously you are still paying the same amount. Plain and simple, if the final price isn't what you like, then don't buy the item...maybe I'm missing something.

mannetti21 wrote in post #15900909
What difference does it make if you are being asked to pay paypal fees or if they are included in the price already? If I advertise a lens for $1000 plus 2.9% for fees versus the same lens for $1029 without fees, obviously you are still paying the same amount. Plain and simple, if the final price isn't what you like, then don't buy the item...maybe I'm missing something.

It comes down to the fact that sellers blatantly asking buyers to pay their seller fees is cheap as hell. Like I said that's my one major gripe about sellers on this forum. Guys with obviously too much money on their hands that are shooting pro gear but are admittedly hobbyists buy still complain about paying the 3% they are CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED to pay for using the service THEY choose to accept as paymet. Smacks of guys that are at heart cheap SOB's. Not to mention it's against Paypal TOS to ask for a payment to be gifted AND it's also against TOS to add a 3% surcharge to pay with paypal vs any other method ergo almost every seller here if someone wanted to could be reported for TOS violations and depending on how many times it happened could be subject to PP account closure.

icacphotography wrote in post #15900981
It comes down to the fact that sellers blatantly asking buyers to pay their seller fees is cheap as hell. Like I said that's my one major gripe about sellers on this forum. Guys with obviously too much money on their hands that are shooting pro gear but are admittedly hobbyists buy still complain about paying the 3% they are CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED to pay for using the service THEY choose to accept as paymet. Smacks of guys that are at heart cheap SOB's. Not to mention it's against Paypal TOS to ask for a payment to be gifted AND it's also against TOS to add a 3% surcharge to pay with paypal vs any other method ergo almost every seller here if someone wanted to could be reported for TOS violations and depending on how many times it happened could be subject to PP account closure.

I find it actually quite ironic. At the heart of the matter, you are a cheap buyer who is accusing sellers of being "cheap". Basically either you want that all current listing prices are staying the same, sellers eating 3% and everything could be bought a bit cheaper for your advantage OR you really want a certain variation in wording advertisement so not to hurt your sensitive feeling.

Paypal's TOS or not I couldn't care less. The purpose of Paypal's TOS is to make more money for the big corporation. At one time of another, small guy like me find it amusing to be able to screw some money out of the big pocket. I think it is kind of low of you wanting to side with Paypal reporting small time photofog seller because either you are cheap or too sensitive.

icacphotography wrote in post #15900981
It comes down to the fact that sellers blatantly asking buyers to pay their seller fees is cheap as hell. Like I said that's my one major gripe about sellers on this forum. Guys with obviously too much money on their hands that are shooting pro gear but are admittedly hobbyists buy still complain about paying the 3% they are CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED to pay for using the service THEY choose to accept as paymet. Smacks of guys that are at heart cheap SOB's. Not to mention it's against Paypal TOS to ask for a payment to be gifted AND it's also against TOS to add a 3% surcharge to pay with paypal vs any other method ergo almost every seller here if someone wanted to could be reported for TOS violations and depending on how many times it happened could be subject to PP account closure.

While I agree that using Paypal Gift for purchases is against the terms of service, can you give a link to where Paypal say you can't charge a surcharge? As I'm in the UK I've checked the UK terms of service, and section 4.5 quite clearly states that surchases are not prohibited:
"You agree that you will only surcharge for the use of PayPal in compliance with any law applicable to you. You further agree that if you do charge a buyer any form of surcharge that you, and not PayPal, will inform the buyer of the requested charge."
If you're going to make accusations like this (accusing forum members of breaking their contractual agreements) I suggest you back it up with some evidence.

vaflower wrote in post #15905213
I find it actually quite ironic. At the heart of the matter, you are a cheap buyer who is accusing sellers of being "cheap". Basically either you want that all current listing prices are staying the same, sellers eating 3% and everything could be bought a bit cheaper for your advantage OR you really want a certain variation in wording advertisement so not to hurt your sensitive feeling.

Uh, no. It would be fine if the sellers just bundled that 3% into their asking price, instead of asking buyers to give up their PayPal protection. Try to keep up.

vaflower wrote in post #15905213
Paypal's TOS or not I couldn't care less. The purpose of Paypal's TOS is to make more money for the big corporation. At one time of another, small guy like me find it amusing to be able to screw some money out of the big pocket. I think it is kind of low of you wanting to side with Paypal reporting small time photofog seller because either you are cheap or too sensitive.

Thanks for coming right out and admitting you're a thief. Do you also shoplift to screw the big corporation?

gcogger wrote in post #15905801
While I agree that using Paypal Gift for purchases is against the terms of service, can you give a link to where Paypal say you can't charge a surcharge? As I'm in the UK I've checked the UK terms of service, and section 4.5 quite clearly states that surchases are not prohibited:
"You agree that you will only surcharge for the use of PayPal in compliance with any law applicable to you. You further agree that if you do charge a buyer any form of surcharge that you, and not PayPal, will inform the buyer of the requested charge."
If you're going to make accusations like this (accusing forum members of breaking their contractual agreements) I suggest you back it up with some evidence.

PayPal policies differ between the USA and UK:

"You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment. This restriction does not prevent you from imposing a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge (in other words, the handling fee for transactions paid through PayPal may not be higher than the handling fee for transactions paid through other payment methods). Nor does this restriction apply to Pound-denominated transactions by sellers residing in the United Kingdom listing items for sale on a UK-based website."

https://www.paypal.com …cr?cmd=p/gen/te​rms&bn_r=o

Since this site is registered in Canada, items listed for sale here would not qualify for the UK exception.

Is that enough evidence?

moose10101 wrote in post #15906087
Uh, no. It would be fine if the sellers just bundled that 3% into their asking price, instead of asking buyers to give up their PayPal protection. Try to keep up.


Thanks for coming right out and admitting you're a thief. Do you also shoplift to screw the big corporation?

Why thanking me ? I am not a thief or a hypocrite whatever you think. It is no point in in searching the fine prints here and there to support whatever variation of action you have.

vaflower wrote in post #15906327
Why thanking me ? I am not a thief or a hypocrite whatever you think.

Sure. Right.

vaflower wrote in post #15905213
I find it actually quite ironic. At the heart of the matter, you are a cheap buyer who is accusing sellers of being "cheap". Basically either you want that all current listing prices are staying the same, sellers eating 3% and everything could be bought a bit cheaper for your advantage OR you really want a certain variation in wording advertisement so not to hurt your sensitive feeling.

Paypal's TOS or not I couldn't care less. The purpose of Paypal's TOS is to make more money for the big corporation. At one time of another, small guy like me find it amusing to be able to screw some money out of the big pocket. I think it is kind of low of you wanting to side with Paypal reporting small time photofog seller because either you are cheap or too sensitive.

You entered into a contract with them and are expected to abide by it. You don't like it then don't use it, plain and simple.

i've posted on this subject before and I still don't understand why people just can't bundle fees into their asking price to comply with the ToS.

What really gets me is that the very same people who are so willing to violate the ToS that they agreed to will gladly post about someone stealing their picture, or wanting to make sure a client follows their contract they signed when it comes to payments and other language in it. if you want to steal from a company, don't be so surprised and shocked when it happens to you.

https://www.paypal.com​/webapps/mpp/paypal-fees

Paypal fees are always the responsibility of the seller. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Right, it is the SELLER that is getting the service from Paypal.