Bird Photographer needs guidance

Quality glass (100-400L or 400/5.6) and cheap DSLR (used 30D, 40D, 1D2, or even an old rebel like an XTi which can be had for US $175ish. That 7D or 1D3 doesn't work well without a lens!

WobblyWilly wrote in post #15917429
hollis - just to clarify: I'm willing to save a little longer in order to get the right gear, but what I cannot afford is to get something fairly pricey (it's all pricey once it gets here!) and then upgrade later. I do take your point, however.

The good thing about buying second-hand is that you can re-sell when you upgrade for a small loss. In fact, lenses keep their value so well that, with a bit of inflation, you can often resell for a small profit.

Depreciation on camera bodies is more of a problem, but less so with older bodies. So the 50D that costs £370 today is likely to be worth around £300 in 18 month's time. Whereas the 7D is more likely to drop from £670 to £500 in the same period.

So, if you went for the 50D/150-500 combination today (total cost £900) then you're probably going to be able to sell it in a year's time for around £750-£800). In effect you're paying £100 to rent a perfectly acceptable birding setup for a year or so.

You raise a very good point and I will certainly look into that aspect. Early research shows that there is only a GBP286 difference between the sigma and a Canon 100-400mm, but I'm sure I'll find others. So far the link you sent me is the only used one I can find. None over here so far. Sadly our population is so small we have only two huge outlets that can offer bargains...

WobblyWilly wrote in post #15917429
I wish I knew how to multi-quote, but WTH...

That's a Canon 5D Mark III, Fogbound? What is FF please?

Beautiful pics, lads! Just enough to deepen my ache!

hollis - just to clarify: I'm willing to save a little longer in order to get the right gear, but what I cannot afford is to get something fairly pricey (it's all pricey once it gets here!) and then upgrade later. I do take your point, however.

Good usable advice and thanks again, everyone!

aliengin took the wind out of my sails with that link....Gordon Bennet!

FF = Full Frame and yes I was talking about the 5D3. This is an example of what I did a 5D Mark III , 100-400L and 1.4ex II

Man!

That is beeeeeutiful!

Thank you, fbt -

I am not gonna argue that IQ with a 5DIII and good glass is superior...

But here is a shot with the lowly 60D and the even more looked down upon 18-200 ...superzoom... 100% crop follows. Shot in jpeg only because of the high FPS filling the buffer and slightly over-sharpened in-camera... Those were my early days with the 60D... I have dialled it down a tad...

IMAGE LINK: http://s37.photobucket​.com …IMG_2591crop102​4.jpg.html

WobblyWilly wrote in post #15917750
You raise a very good point and I will certainly look into that aspect. Early research shows that there is only a GBP286 difference between the sigma and a Canon 100-400mm, but I'm sure I'll find others. So far the link you sent me is the only used one I can find. None over here so far. Sadly our population is so small we have only two huge outlets that can offer bargains...

Whoops! Didn't notice the location. I just saw the £ sign and assumed GB.

Wise words Makis!

Problem is I have Champagne tastes and a Beaujolais income...

Not a train smash, Mr. H - Worst comes to the worst I can hopefully import from the UK, though is does look as if Amazon refuse to send lenses int. al. to the jungle...I just looked at the 100-400mm on their site.

Lowly 30d from way way back. I had 5dmk3 so know it is damn nice camera but lens is main thing. 500mm f4 IS in my case.:

100% crop (1600x1200) from 8MP

WobblyWilly wrote in post #15918393
Wise words Makis!

Problem is I have Champagne tastes and a Beaujolais income...

Not a train smash, Mr. H - Worst comes to the worst I can hopefully import from the UK, though is does look as if Amazon refuse to send lenses int. al. to the jungle...I just looked at the 100-400mm on their site.

That's why I made the point about the 60D

7D is good. A buddy has the 7D and a Canon L 400mm F 5.6 and his bird photographs are spectacular.

I use a Pentax K-5 , which is a rugged (magnesium alloy body), weather sealed (77 body seals) DSLR. I really like it...does great quality work and most of my stuff is out doors...during long, cold winters.

But hey....this is a Canon website....so no more mentions of Pentax, Nikon, etc.

Another lens I would consider and that I use...is a Sigma 150-500 OS lens. Very heavy....F stop is F 5 to F 6.3....so you need good light and I usually use ISO 640 to 800 at least, to get a shutter speed over 1/1000th or more to freeze the action. I also tend to use F 8 to F11 when photographing wild birds, wildlife.

Probably the same kind of stuff you would do using the Canon F 5.6 400mm.

Both these lenses are not 'fast'....like an F 4....but F 4 on a super telephoto is very pricey.

BTW, although I've had the Sigma less than a month I've been very pleased with the sharpness of the photo's. It's very good.

Another nice lens option is a 300mm f/2.8 IS version 1 it takes the 1.4x and 2x III wonderfully and you will still keep AF on your 7D with the 2x. Keep your eyes peeled for a used copy of this lens and you will never regret it!

WobblyWilly wrote in post #15914272
Basically I have 800quid now

butterfly2937 wrote in post #15918483
Another nice lens option is a 300mm f/2.8 IS version 1

Hey, why stop at the Mk1 when the MkII is so much better? And just as unreal for the stated budget.

fogboundturtle wrote in post #15915068
I will play the devil advocate here. Most people will tell you that 7D and the 100-400L is a no brainer but I have to say that ever since I move from a 1.6x crop camera to a FF camera, the overall qualify of my picture has improved significantly. Yes the birds are not as big but the overall imagine quality is greater.

I feel the same way about the old 1.3x Vs. 1.6.
In fact, as someone who now shoots all three, I still prefer the 1.3x for the best of both worlds scenario, but I do feel the IQ of the FF and 1.3X always seems preferable to the 1.6x.
That said, for new cameras for birding, 7D is best bang for the buck. For used, I tend to suggest 1DIII or 1DII

Lens Options for the OP:
The other lens mentioned a few times is seriously worth a look, that being the 400mm f/5.6L Prime.
It's disadvantages are significant,. ie: it sucks at 100-399mm
It's MFD (minimum focus distance) is too long.
And it lacks the IS that helps so much for many starting out with long focal lengths.

It's advantages are fourfold:
Better image Quality @ 400mm. (takes a TC better as well, AF or not)
Faster Auto Focus (the AF on this lens is as fast or faster than some lenses costing 6 times as much)
Lighter weight
Lower cost.

I tend to recommend the Zoom as it is Soooooooooooo flexible. It has really nice MFD so you can use it for macro like shots, the IS is a lifesaver for beginners and old hands alike. And the super fast one touch Zoom makes it a framing superstar.

As long as the glass is good, the camera will capture great images. Canon's bayer CMOS sensor technology hasn't changed much over the years and image quality hasn't really changed either... Newer crop cameras have more pixels, better noise reduction algorithms and better autofocus, but the lens still rules...

Here's a shot taken with my old 10D and the 100-400IS.