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Thread started 09 May 2013 (Thursday) 05:49
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umphotography
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May 09, 2013 05:49 |  #1

Enjoy

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May 09, 2013 09:48 |  #2

"I don't lease my f****** Panzers!"


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Hunt-man
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May 09, 2013 11:01 as a reply to  @ Dan Marchant's post |  #3

Poll results are interesting. 11% seem ok with CC. Seems consistent with some of the other polls. I'm going to bet Adobe backtracks on this CC move but it will take a while.


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Mark-B
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May 09, 2013 14:01 |  #4

Hunt-man wrote in post #15914550 (external link)
Poll results are interesting. 11% seem ok with CC. Seems consistent with some of the other polls. I'm going to bet Adobe backtracks on this CC move but it will take a while.

They don't need to backtrack. They just need to make a minor adjustment to the terms:

Sign up, complete your annual contract, then have a choice between renewing for another year or opting out and using your software at it's current feature level. If you opt out now and want new features later, sign up for another year.

I think that's all it would take to satisfy the majority of people. The big issue with the current terms isn't the price, it's the fact that you have no software to open your files if you choose not to continue your subscription. The software might belong to Adobe, but the work you create with it for paying clients does not.


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benji25
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May 09, 2013 14:05 |  #5

Hunt-man wrote in post #15914550 (external link)
Poll results are interesting. 11% seem ok with CC. Seems consistent with some of the other polls. I'm going to bet Adobe backtracks on this CC move but it will take a while.

I think it makes sense for professionals who use the software to make money for a living. They need it every month and probably need the latest and greatest. However, for a hobbiest that only needs to upgrade once every 5 - 7 years this will be killer. I have CS4 still and use it all the time. If I had to pay monthly to use it I would dump that faster than I dumped my first girlfriend in 6th grade.


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Scatterbrained
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May 09, 2013 14:12 |  #6

Mark-B wrote in post #15915245 (external link)
They don't need to backtrack. They just need to make a minor adjustment to the terms:

Sign up, complete your annual contract, then have a choice between renewing for another year or opting out and using your software at it's current feature level. If you opt out now and want new features later, sign up for another year.

I think that's all it would take to satisfy the majority of people. The big issue with the current terms isn't the price, it's the fact that you have no software to open your files if you choose not to continue your subscription. The software might belong to Adobe, but the work you create with it for paying clients does not.

Rent to own is way to sensible for Adobe. I think ethics went out the window with this decision and it came down to blind stats. They figured the amount of revenue from corporate subs plus the independents/hobbyists that would step up to a sub (every independent I've seen if favor was someone who didn't already own CS) would offset the lost revenue from the hobbyists and independents that don't want a subscription.


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Scatterbrained
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May 09, 2013 14:13 |  #7

I too am curious to know how one would invade Russia with rented software. . . . :confused::lol:


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DianeK
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May 09, 2013 14:13 |  #8

Mark-B wrote in post #15915245 (external link)
They don't need to backtrack. They just need to make a minor adjustment to the terms:

Sign up, complete your annual contract, then have a choice between renewing for another year or opting out and using your software at it's current feature level. If you opt out now and want new features later, sign up for another year.

I think that's all it would take to satisfy the majority of people. The big issue with the current terms isn't the price, it's the fact that you have no software to open your files if you choose not to continue your subscription. The software might belong to Adobe, but the work you create with it for paying clients does not.

Bang-on Mark-B. I could certainly live with that. As it is now, I am going to stay with LR4 and PS CS5 and not put any more $$ into Adobe products. If Adobe were to relent and go the way you suggest then I'm back in in a flash. If not, I'll stick with what I have and only upgrade LR when I need a new ACR for a newly acquired camera. And if LR goes subscription-only by then, well I guess I will move over to Capture One. I know most of their income comes from commercial users who seem fine with the subscription model and Adobe could care less that they will lose me and others like me as customers but it's a shame that they haven't a scheme such as you suggest.


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adza77
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May 09, 2013 18:47 |  #9

Just curious - where is this poll you speak of? I'm curious to know the results please?


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Dan ­ Marchant
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May 09, 2013 23:47 |  #10

CC will certainly succeed. They already have 500,000 customers signed up. At $20 a month that is $10,000,000 a year. When discount pricing ends that amount will go up. Photoshop, After Effect etc are standard tools in the video game industry, advertising, film, post production, graphic design. Most of these companies already use subscription software on their high end graphics work stations. They will sign up for CC because, put simply, they bill the cost to their clients.


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May 10, 2013 06:42 |  #11

Also for all the larger companies, it then becomes an operating cost, which can be 100% written down to tax in the year it was incurred. Otherwise it is treated as a capital cost and is written down usually over three years. It's the same reason they lease vehicles, and even the computers. Also they are going to do the full upgrade each release, so it is going to be just as cheap as purchase, better even as it will probably work out that it is effectively financed for free.

For small business users, who would not necessarily be on the full upgrade every release cycle, and of course amateurs CC is not such a good deal, especially for those who are willing to wait and try to pick the software up when it is on special offer, as it seems to be quite often (at least in the USA).

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May 10, 2013 17:27 |  #12

It's funny how so many people online are moaning about Adobe making a move that makes sense, but nobody seems to care about the many thousands of people that steal from them every day. Maybe if so many people didn't pirate their software they wouldn't need to go to this model.

Besides...with the speed of hardware and OS developments... software is only good for a few years anyway. Yeah, you can use boxed software indefinitely, but I'll spare you the story about my x286 sitting in storage collecting dust.

If you're still using yester-years hardware/software.... chances are the industry doesn't really care what you think anyway. You aren't spending/making money. Go use the gimp, lol. For the extra income Adobe makes for this new model, it will more than make up for the nickle and dime business from the basement dwelling poor folk it has effectively disenfranchised.

I think it's a great move on numerous levels, never mind that I've been subscribing for about a year now. Happily. :lol:

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May 11, 2013 02:03 |  #13

lizzle wrote in post #15919460 (external link)
It's funny how so many people online are moaning about Adobe making a move that makes sense, but nobody seems to care about the many thousands of people that steal from them every day. Maybe if so many people didn't pirate their software they wouldn't need to go to this model.

Besides...with the speed of hardware and OS developments... software is only good for a few years anyway. Yeah, you can use boxed software indefinitely, but I'll spare you the story about my x286 sitting in storage collecting dust.

If you're still using yester-years hardware/software.... chances are the industry doesn't really care what you think anyway. You aren't spending/making money. Go use the gimp, lol. For the extra income Adobe makes for this new model, it will more than make up for the nickle and dime business from the basement dwelling poor folk it has effectively disenfranchised.

I think it's a great move on numerous levels, never mind that I've been subscribing for about a year now. Happily. :lol:

A) Do you actually think this model will hinder hackers? If so, you are mistaken. I'm not saying that I agree with this, but there are already numerous threads and posts where people are outraged of having to pay monthly to 'rent' Photoshop and have outright said that they plan to pirate it. There are already a number of pseudo methods of how to hack the software - it's simply a matter of time (unless it's been done already, but I'm not out searching for it).

B) Have you ever looked for training or tutorials for Gimp? I'd gladly pay a professional level cost, for a professional level software with plenty of training available (but I won't be signing up for a monthly expense for rental-ware). Additionally, there are plenty of working photographers who are using older CS versions. If their workflow is such that a newer version is of no benefit, why should they buy? I purchased my car back in 2007, and it still runs perfectly fine. Should I be forced to buy a new one? I certainly don't want to be forced to rent one and be required to make monthly payments on it the rest of my life.

There is plenty of more information/discussion in the thread that was merged to the topic here:
https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1297722


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adza77
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May 11, 2013 03:58 |  #14

Indeed - it definitely won't stop pirating. As for making more money - it will be interesting to see.

According to their own website, they made $1B in one quarter which from what I can tell included cloud subscriptions.

http://www.adobe.com …/201209/Q312Ear​nings.html (external link)

If they have 1/2 a million on cloud, paying $50 per month, by my calculations 3 months worth would equate to $75m. (And I think I'm been generous thinking all are $50. Many would be educational, or possibly $20/month single apps).

So - out of the $1B they earned, does this mean that $75M - 10% was from cloud subscriptions - thus 90% from non-cloud?

I don't know - just putting it out there - but if that is the case, it seems to me that half a million subscribers is only a minority, not a majority of their current actively paying users. It's always hard to know if figures thrown out there (like 1/2 a million subscribers) are a significant figure of their existing user base.


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Tommi ­ B
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May 11, 2013 05:07 |  #15

Mark-B wrote in post #15915245 (external link)
They don't need to backtrack. They just need to make a minor adjustment to the terms:

Sign up, complete your annual contract, then have a choice between renewing for another year or opting out and using your software at it's current feature level. If you opt out now and want new features later, sign up for another year.

I think that's all it would take to satisfy the majority of people. The big issue with the current terms isn't the price, it's the fact that you have no software to open your files if you choose not to continue your subscription. The software might belong to Adobe, but the work you create with it for paying clients does not.

I would like to to second that. In the my company we use software the annual subscription is way higher (about $1200.-) and to start you have to buy the software (about $5000.-). But of course the latest release your subscription is valid for stays full functional.


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