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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 10 Oct 2011 (Monday) 02:01
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Phottix Odin, Wireless E-TTL that works!!!!

 
oldvultureface
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May 14, 2013 22:46 as a reply to  @ post 15932973 |  #736

Normal usage of the 580 (on camera, ETTL cord, simple triggers, 622s), no preflash. The Odin, oddly, does it differently.




  
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CliveyBoy
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May 14, 2013 23:03 |  #737

I think that Elv is right on this.

With Canon and an on-camera flash, no pre-shutter commands are required for flash setup, but there is a preflash emitted for the exposure evaluation if in E-TTL. So Manual does not emit any of the pre-flash streams.

In Canon wireless, the flash setup commands are required, even in Manual. But not, of course, the exposure evaluation commands and flash.

Other gear may or may not emit a preflash in Manual. I understand that the Odins do. The YN-622Cs don't, the commands by preflash are suppressed, in Manual.

Even although the set-up commands are transmitted by radio and not light pulse, in ttl mode every E-TTL trigger must cause the flashes to fire a pre-flash for the camera to evaluate the actual lighting on the subject, before the shutter is opened.


Clive, and Great G/D Abbie
50D; 580EXII, 430EXII, 550EX, YN685EX; YN-622C II, YN622C-TX and YN560-TX controllers TOYUG II v5.10 YN622 System Guide (external link)
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elv
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May 14, 2013 23:13 |  #738

oldvultureface wrote in post #15933241 (external link)
Normal usage of the 580 (on camera, ETTL cord, simple triggers, 622s), no preflash. The Odin, oddly, does it differently.

Ok sorry, I thought this was the Odin manual saying use a light meter etc, not the 580EX II as stated.

Yes the Odin does it differently, it used the flash in ETTL mode all the time (even for manual power settings) and takes full control of it that way.

Interesting the YN-622N for Nikon have had to do the same thing (ie use the flash in TTL mode all the time) so it will be interesting to see if they have a pre-flash in manual now too.

The other issue with the Odin is that the test fire is not at the set power level, just a small light pulse. If they change that, that would fix the light meter issue without having to change the whole system.
.


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stuworrall
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May 15, 2013 18:24 |  #739

is this a general odin thread? I wasnt sure whether to start a new one.

Anyway, ive been using the system for about a year now and I do love it. The only problem ive had which has now affected both receivers is that the plastic on the hot-shoe has broken on one side.

i guess its just a bad design or weak plastic but is there anything I can buy to get around the problem when I want to mount the units on a light stand? i was thinking of screwing something into the metal mount underneath which can then mount to the light stand?


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2 x Canon 5D mk ii / 30D / 2 x 580 EXii
Sigma 50mm F1.4 / 18-50mm F2.8 / 70-200mm F2.8
Canon 24-70mm F2.8L / 50mm f1.4 / 85mm f1.8 / 10-22mm / 28-105mm USM II

  
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elv
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May 15, 2013 20:49 |  #740

stuworrall wrote in post #15935796 (external link)
is this a general odin thread? I wasnt sure whether to start a new one.

Anyway, ive been using the system for about a year now and I do love it. The only problem ive had which has now affected both receivers is that the plastic on the hot-shoe has broken on one side.

i guess its just a bad design or weak plastic but is there anything I can buy to get around the problem when I want to mount the units on a light stand? i was thinking of screwing something into the metal mount underneath which can then mount to the light stand?

That's not uncommon with any of the triggers, you really need to mount via the threaded mounting hole for anything more than a short period.

I generally use umbrellas swivels to mount the flash to the light stand. So they have a 5/8" brass stud that screws into the base of the receiver, which then locates into the top of the swivel. On brackets like the Multi Boom (external link) you can screw straight on safely with the thumbscrew.
.


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bmang11
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May 16, 2013 14:15 |  #741

stuworrall wrote in post #15935796 (external link)
is this a general odin thread? I wasnt sure whether to start a new one.

Anyway, ive been using the system for about a year now and I do love it. The only problem ive had which has now affected both receivers is that the plastic on the hot-shoe has broken on one side.

i guess its just a bad design or weak plastic but is there anything I can buy to get around the problem when I want to mount the units on a light stand? i was thinking of screwing something into the metal mount underneath which can then mount to the light stand?


Had this problem......contacted CS and they sent me a new one. Paid for shipping too!


2x 5DIII - 70-200II - 100L - 85II -
24-70L - 35ART - 15mm
www.brianmenzphotograp​hy.com (external link)

  
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dwdallam
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May 16, 2013 16:49 |  #742

elv wrote in post #15898339 (external link)
You can use the Einstein connected to an Odin receiver vial PC sync cord (supplied).

If you're after another receiver though just for the Einstein you could save a few dollars going with the Strato II, or Atlas II fully manual receivers.

http://flashhavoc.com …manual/#Phottix​_Strato_II (external link)
http://flashhavoc.com …-manual/#Phottix_Atlas_​II (external link)
.


You can also triggered Alien Bees using the same method. I also mixed 580s and the Alien Bees.




  
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dwdallam
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May 16, 2013 16:56 |  #743

(1) You set the zoom in manual, then switch back to TTL. The zoom setting will hold. In fact, I think with the new FW, once you hit 'zoom" in TTL, it automatically takes you to manual. (I think.)

(2) Test it again in a controlled environment. It could be the camera itself. Use manual for the test, then ETTL. Write back.

I had some issues lately where the flash would simply not fire. Inconsistent behavior. I'm sick of it to tell you the truth. I'm about ready to sell the entire system for the Canon 600 system and be done with it all.

If it happens again, I'm done. I just can't be a remote trouble shooter when I need stuff to work now, all the time, without exception.

adammazza wrote in post #15918363 (external link)
Hi, so I haven't posted in this thread in a very long time...

Anyway, I've since gotten a 6D, and just now have had time to actually try the Phottix Odins with them. Let me start by saying I am on the most recent firmware.

Two questions/issues/.

1) With my 6D, 580EXII, and Sigma 50mm lens. Should I be able to manually zoom the flash head in TTL mode? This may be a dumb question. I can zoom the flash head when I put the Odin in manual mode not problem.

2) I wanted to test HSS today in mid day sun. I am using TTL mode for this. I first tried on a flower and got what I expected at 1/4000 F1.8 ISO100. Was able to adjust FC in thirds (yay finally) and see the result.

Problem came when I asked my wife to help me out. I was hand holding the flash at arms length and my first show I got what was expected I had to dial up/down FC a third here or there but I figure that's just the variance in hand holding a flash ;).

After a few shots I started getting very erratic results. Mostly over exposing by at least 2.5 stops. In some cases -3 FC didn't help. Was wondering if anyone else has experienced this with a 6D I didn't get a chance to test without HSS.

thanks




  
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dwdallam
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May 16, 2013 16:59 |  #744

elv wrote in post #15932973 (external link)
Are you sure about this? Unless it was changed in the firmware somewhere that is not the case.

Can you get a light meter to work, or fire another slave in sync using an optic slave on that light?

I only have the original instruction manual, and page 22 is in French :-)
.


elv

It's impossible to figure out Canon manuals. They are masters of confusion. I'll test (AGAIN) off camera using 580s and the Odin system and report back.




  
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dwdallam
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May 16, 2013 17:03 |  #745

THANK YOU! I was wondering why in the upper left corner of the Odin Transmitter it always says "TTL". No I know. The test button should have the option to fire at the flashes real light output per ETTL or manual, but at least fire at the power output in manual. the Canon flashes actually allow you to do that--set them so when in manual, you get the dialed in power setting when you push the test button. Good thing too or we would not be able to light paint with them.

elv wrote in post #15933303 (external link)
Ok sorry, I thought this was the Odin manual saying use a light meter etc, not the 580EX II as stated.

Yes the Odin does it differently, it used the flash in ETTL mode all the time (even for manual power settings) and takes full control of it that way.

Interesting the YN-622N for Nikon have had to do the same thing (ie use the flash in TTL mode all the time) so it will be interesting to see if they have a pre-flash in manual now too.

The other issue with the Odin is that the test fire is not at the set power level, just a small light pulse. If they change that, that would fix the light meter issue without having to change the whole system.
.




  
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dwdallam
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May 19, 2013 01:58 |  #746

OK so I had some Odin misfires last time I photographed automobiles, so tonight I finally got around to testing again.

Summary: With obstructions, as in having flashes inside of a car or on the opposite side of the car and hidden behind a tire, the Odins will misfire or fire inconsistently if I am further than a bout 25m max. And Elv, I also tried them with Alkalines. Same problem.

When the TCU has line of site to the flash units, then I can get past 30m with no misfires. I didn't test much further than 35m.

Here is a jpg of my test set up with text explanations. If anyone wants to see a more in depth test, I will set up a video camera and do a full test in video so everyone can see with there own eyes.

IMAGE NOT FOUND
IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO


As for moving to the new Canon RF system, that's not going to ever happen now that I fully understand the Canon system limitations:
(1) Can't do 2nd curtain off camera, regardless of your camera. Canon doesn't seem smart enough to implement this feature. PW and Phottix Odins do.
(2) Can't use the new groups function unless your camera is 2012 or newer.
(3) You will lose 1 full stop when syncing older cameras made before 2012: If you have a max syn speed of 1/200th, that means when using the new RT system, you will be limited to 1/100th shutter speed.
(4) Cannot adjust zoom from the STE3 controller: Both PW and Phottix can do this.
(5) Cannot mix studio strobes or other flashes.

In fact, if Canon doesn't quickly get their **** in one sock (next couple of years), I'm going to be selling my entire Canon system and moving to Nikon. I really don't appreciate being left behind with their new flash system after investing over 20K in Canon equipment, including my now mostly incompatible with the new RT system Canon 1DSMKIII 8, 000 USD camera. Bull**** Canon.



  
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aam1234
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May 20, 2013 05:22 as a reply to  @ dwdallam's post |  #747

Noob questions:
- When you change the power on the Odin, does the flash show the change in its back screen, or does it remain at zero.

- Where to set HSS, on Odin or on flash.

Equipment:
- 1DsIII
- 2x EX600-RF
- 1x EX580 (original).

Thanks.




  
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elv
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May 20, 2013 10:37 |  #748

aam1234 wrote in post #15948916 (external link)
Noob questions:
- When you change the power on the Odin, does the flash show the change in its back screen, or does it remain at zero.

- Where to set HSS, on Odin or on flash.

Equipment:
- 1DsIII
- 2x EX600-RF
- 1x EX580 (original).

Thanks.

No the flash power doesn't show on the flash itself, you just set those to ETTL and leave them like that (no master or slave function on). Manual or ETTL is then set on the Odin transmitter unit.

HSS is also turned on and off from the Odin transmitter unit.
.


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aam1234
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May 20, 2013 23:47 |  #749

Thanks, Elv.




  
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dwdallam
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May 24, 2013 00:55 |  #750

elv wrote in post #15932973 (external link)
Are you sure about this? Unless it was changed in the firmware somewhere that is not the case.

Can you get a light meter to work, or fire another slave in sync using an optic slave on that light?

I only have the original instruction manual, and page 22 is in French :-)
.

Elv

You can trigger the 580-EXII in manual "from the flash test button" without a pref lash. That's how you can use a light meter.




  
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Phottix Odin, Wireless E-TTL that works!!!!
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