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Thread started 16 May 2013 (Thursday) 05:10
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5DIII can it do it all?

 
newphoto
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May 16, 2013 16:18 |  #16

Scrumhalf wrote in post #15938731 (external link)
It is for this precise reason that I am considering the dark side and the D800. From 36.6M pixels, I can crop to 1.6X and still have 14.3M pixels on the subject. Or I will wait to see what Canon's megapixel camera is going to look at. Canonrumors said there's going to be an announcement in September or October! :D

In regards to the D800, it may well be the camera for you, but don't expect those cropped 14.3 megapixels to equal a shot taken of the same subject with full resolution on a crop frame camera. Other factors come into play like noise and diffraction. There are physical limitations to how far any digital file can be cropped and retain good resolution. The D800 has not, as far as I know, gotten around these limitations. Before anyone jumps down my throat it is true that the D800 can be cropped with good results more than a 7D, but I doubt you would see much difference compared with a 5DIII. Just saying!


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ErgoSpacePig
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May 16, 2013 16:36 |  #17

you can crop the 5d3 well past 1.6x, it is truly an amazing camera.

this is a 100% crop or close to it.

IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7283/8735130033_7c23a96bc7_z.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/ergospacepig/8​735130033/  (external link)
_T8A8149 (external link) by Bob Sandor 2013 (external link), on Flickr

i am not a birder and don't own any long lenses, just happen to be in the right place and took this with my 135L.

bob

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Scrumhalf
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May 16, 2013 16:39 |  #18

Let's look at some numbers:

The sensor size of the D800 is 35.9mm x 24mm. It has 7360 x 4912 pixels (36.6M total). This means that each pixel occupies an area of 23.8 um^2 and an effective pixel pitch of 4.88 um.

The sensor size of the 5D3 is 36mm x 24mm and has 5760 x 3840 pixels (22.1M total). This means that each pixel occupies an area of 39 um^2 and an effective pixel pitch of 6.25um.

So clearly, the 5D3 has bigger pixels and all else being equal, better noise characteristics. But that is assuming that the fabrication technology and other details of chunk of semiconductor in the sensor are equivalent, which is probably not true. I haven't carefully looked at the noise characteristics of the D800 vs. the 5D3 other than that the 5D3 is spectacular but that the D800 is not too far behind, at least up to some reasonable ISO numbers until the 5D3 pulls ahead.

Let's compare the cropped pixel numbers.

The crop sensor size of the 7D is 22.3mm x 14.9mm and has 5184 x 3456 pixels (17.9M total). This means that each pixel occupies an area of 18.54 um^2 and a resultant pixel pitch of 4.3um.

For 1.6X crop FOV, the D800 puts 14.3M pixels of 23.8 um^2 on the subject. The 7D puts all its 17.9M pixels of 18.54 um^2 on the subject. And the 5D3 puts only 22.1/2.56 = 8.63M pixels of 39 um^2 on the same subject.

To me, there is no contest here. If you ignore noise, you are going to get the best resolution (# of pixels on subject) with the 7D for the same FOV. The D800 is close with much bigger pixels and therefore better noise characteristics. The 5D3 is quite a bit behind in terms of pixels on subject.

Whether this matters in real life is a different question entirely and depends on whether the photo is viewed on a monitor or printed or whatever, but I don't think we can ignore the numbers.


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Scrumhalf
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May 16, 2013 16:47 |  #19

newphoto wrote in post #15938752 (external link)
the D800 can be cropped with good results more than a 7D, but I doubt you would see much difference compared with a 5DIII. Just saying!

As my post above indicates, you CANNOT get better results from a 1.6X crop off the D800 based on resolution alone. You will have 17.9M pixels on the 7D vs. only 14.3M pixels on the D800 for the same FOV. Likewise, the difference to the 5D3 is huge.

Please note - I am not trying to make any qualitative conclusions here. I am purely making a QUANTITATIVE comparison of resolution as measured by pixel count for the same field of view for 7D vs. 5D3 vs. D800. To say that they are equivalent, at least from a quantitative standpoint, is simply not true.

It is entirely possible that the 8M pixels of a 5D3 at a 1.6X crop gives a more pleasing photograph than either 17.9M pixels of the 7D or 14.3M pixels of the D800. I don't know that since I only own a 7D and have no way to compare. But that kind of qualitative comparison is not what i am talking about here.


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If I don't get the shots I want with the gear I have, the only optics I need to examine is the mirror on the bathroom wall. The root cause will be there.

  
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Scrumhalf
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May 16, 2013 16:53 |  #20

By the way, I am in the same boat as the OP. I am also looking to add a FF camera and have a choice.

I'll probably get a 5D3 at some point since I can't bear the thought of parting with my beautiful and sharp white lenses :), but I would definitely still hang on to my 7D for birding.

But I've got to be honest, the call of the dark side cannot be trivially ignored, as the D800 may be the one camera solution without significant loss of resolution while cropping. I don't look forward to the selling and buying of lenses that it would involve and i may not do it for that reason, but I'm keeping my options open.


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4g63photo
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May 16, 2013 17:02 |  #21

Scrumhalf wrote in post #15938815 (external link)
Let's look at some numbers:

The sensor size of the D800 is 35.9mm x 24mm. It has 7360 x 4912 pixels (36.6M total). This means that each pixel occupies an area of 23.8 um^2 and an effective pixel pitch of 4.88 um.

The sensor size of the 5D3 is 36mm x 24mm and has 5760 x 3840 pixels (22.1M total). This means that each pixel occupies an area of 39 um^2 and an effective pixel pitch of 6.25um.

So clearly, the 5D3 has bigger pixels and all else being equal, better noise characteristics. But that is assuming that the fabrication technology and other details of chunk of semiconductor in the sensor are equivalent, which is probably not true. I haven't carefully looked at the noise characteristics of the D800 vs. the 5D3 other than that the 5D3 is spectacular but that the D800 is not too far behind, at least up to some reasonable ISO numbers until the 5D3 pulls ahead.

Let's compare the cropped pixel numbers.

The crop sensor size of the 7D is 22.3mm x 14.9mm and has 5184 x 3456 pixels (17.9M total). This means that each pixel occupies an area of 18.54 um^2 and a resultant pixel pitch of 4.3um.

For 1.6X crop FOV, the D800 puts 14.3M pixels of 23.8 um^2 on the subject. The 7D puts all its 17.9M pixels of 18.54 um^2 on the subject. And the 5D3 puts only 22.1/2.56 = 8.63M pixels of 39 um^2 on the same blah blah blah

Blah Blah blah blah blah--- :-PAnyways, The 5D mk3 is excellent!!! If you have the opportunity do it! I was looking through Pbase under the canon 5d section and there were some amazing shots of birds in flight. You may want to take a look.

Great shot ErgoSpacePig!!


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oklaiss
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May 16, 2013 17:05 |  #22

The AF is fantastic for BIF but you need to consider the reach you will be losing with the FF camera


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Scrumhalf
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May 16, 2013 17:06 |  #23

Please don't misunderstand... I am not bashing the 5D3. Without a doubt, it is an amazing camera and I will probably get one too! :D

I was just putting out the numbers out there. I don't think I got anything wrong in what I said. You are going to lose reach and if you crop to compensate, you are going to lose resolution. Whether that is acceptable to you, only you can determine.


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May 16, 2013 17:07 |  #24

If the 5D3 was a 45mpx camera, then it would be the perfect camera for me. :)

(no need for any of the current 18mpx crop bodies, the 5D3 would have it all, unless you need the onboard flash)


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Scrumhalf
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May 16, 2013 17:11 |  #25

TeamSpeed wrote in post #15938887 (external link)
If the 5D3 was a 45mpx camera, then it would be the perfect camera for me. :)

(no need for any of the current 18mpx crop bodies, the 5D3 would have it all, unless you need the onboard flash)

Precisely! That's why I am eagerly looking forward to see if the 46 megapixel or 50 megapixel Canon rumors come true. But given the cost point of the 5D3, I don't know if such a camera will be priced like a 5D3 or like a 1DX.


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May 16, 2013 17:14 |  #26

Scrumhalf wrote in post #15938896 (external link)
Precisely! That's why I am eagerly looking forward to see if the 46 megapixel or 50 megapixel Canon rumors come true. But given the cost point of the 5D3, I don't know if such a camera will be priced like a 5D3 or like a 1DX.

I am not even sure it needs to be 45mpx. I don't often need all 18mpx of the 7D results today. Others might need all of the resolution for what they do, but I don't. However, I don't want 8-10mpx crops from a FF either. Once the FF hits the 35mpx range, I might be fine at that point.


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Scrumhalf
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May 16, 2013 17:17 |  #27

Yep.. agreed. 1.6x crop off D800 gives 14.3M pixels, so a 35-36M pixel camera should be pretty much adequate.


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May 16, 2013 17:25 |  #28

Now if all my glass was as sharp on the 7D as my Tokina, I would be happy. I can read the block number on the small Berry street sign at 100% zoom, and with my other glass, other than the 100L, nothing can render the detail the 7D needs besides the 100L and Tokina. The same issue would apply with a 46mpx FF though, so I would still have to upgrade glass if Canon did make a more dense FF.

IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/Still-Life/Fort-Wayne/i-cwfjBQQ/0/XL/IMG_2307-XL.jpg

Now I know that I have seen my FF bodies render as good or even better detail at 100% than this, but this would be sufficient for my needs at 100%, and this is a pretty inexpensive UWA too.


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Scrumhalf
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May 16, 2013 17:28 |  #29

Teamspeed, your 24-70 and the 70-200 F2.8 don't keep up with your 7D?


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May 16, 2013 17:29 |  #30

aladyforty wrote in post #15937063 (external link)
I have pondered getting 5DIII. Id love to take just one camera but want to be able to photograph the wildlife as well as the landscapes where Im going. I dont see too many shots from 5DIII of birds online, was wondering if it can do it all

Pardon the edit of your post please.

I have the 5DIII and 7D. I often use my 5DIII for bird shots with my 70-200, 400 f/5.6 and Sigma 50-500 OS(awesome lens). The nice thing about the 5DIII is the large files for cropping.

Here's a quick shot of a pine siskin. Little birds in flight are hard for me to capture correctly. The 5DIII AF system made this shot possible.

IMAGE: http://westernminnguy.smugmug.com/Birds/Birds/i-MbcXRRB/0/M/5D7A1889cPS%20copy-M.jpg

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