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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing 
Thread started 20 May 2013 (Monday) 18:05
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We Need More Alternatives For Software

 
AdamJL
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May 20, 2013 18:05 |  #1

On the Windows platform, we don't have much choice for serious photo and video editing software besides the Adobe suite, Vegas and maybe Corel (ignoring Gimp because that's gone nowhere fast). On the Apple side you have the additions of Final Cut and Aperture, and the very interesting Pixelmator.

Adobe are going after the bigger studio houses with CC, that much is obvious. I think there's now quite a gap in the market to undercut Adobe on price and/or features.

Who can do it? I'd be very interested in say, Microsoft entering this arena. Either through an acquisition (maybe Corel?) and then ramping it up, or starting from scratch (the long play).

Does anyone else think we need competition in this market?


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Tony-S
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May 20, 2013 18:48 |  #2

Aperture, the Nik suite and Photomatix is pretty much all I need. Ocassionally I use pixelmator but I can't tell you the last time I opened PS CS5.


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lar55
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May 20, 2013 20:57 |  #3

"10 Photo Editing Programs (that aren't Photoshop)"
http://www.dpreview.co​m …rams-that-arent-photoshop (external link)

Interesting reading - recommended. No, they do not 'ignore The Gimp because that's gone nowhere fast'. Actually has nice things to say about The Gimp, as well as short reviews of other packages, various prices, platform support, and features.




  
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hollis_f
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May 21, 2013 04:59 |  #4

AdamJL wrote in post #15950942 (external link)
Adobe are going after the bigger studio houses with CC, that much is obvious. I think there's now quite a gap in the market to undercut Adobe on price and/or features.

Yes, I've heard of this image processor that is all of the good bits from PhotoShop, with just a few of the advanced features missing; that is substantially cheaper, has a similar user interface, is compatible with a lot of the plugins, doesn't require any cloudiness and has loads of user-support pages on the Interwebs.

It's called PhotoShop Elements and I'll be switching over to it when I decide that PS CS5 is no longer suited to my requirements.

In the past I've used Paintshop Pro and ACD, but I ended up going for PhotoShop because the online user-based support was so much better. The fact that I became a student and could get PS cheap also helped.

There is/has been plenty of competition - it's just not been good enough.


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BigAl007
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May 21, 2013 06:13 |  #5

Frank Elements looks great until you actually look at what they do to the version of ACR that is included with Elements. The the link to the comparison which you so kindly posted on the other thread.

The Tools Photoshop Elements does not have:

Color Sampler Tool
Targeted Adjustment Tool
Spot Removal
Adjustment Brush
Graduated Filter
Image Adjustment Tabs Photoshop Elements does not have:

Tone Curve
HSL / Grayscale
Split Toning
Lens Corrections
Presets
Snapshots

Having used the full range of tools in the CS version of ACR, could you honestly say that you never use any of those tools? Also although Elements now almost totally manages Layers and more importantly Layer Masks, it mostly only does so in 8 bit colour, so you are again limited by what range of colour adjustments are supported.

It strikes me that Adobe have positioned Elements so that they get you hooked on the Adobe way of doing things, and then once you start to fully explore the limits quite quickly show up. The crippled ACR would not be so bad if you could at least go and do the remaining colour correction in the PS editor in 16 bit. Or the limitation to 8 bit would not be so bad, if the colour and correction tools were available in the ACR version.

The current best answer seems to be Lightroom, as with the full power of the RAW converter for the majority of users that covers between 90 and 95% (or more) of the processing that they are likely to do, and the rest can be done in Elements, as the 16/8 bit limitations are not such a problem when you are coming form the full featured RAW converter. I can see a point coming soon when Adobe may actually do us all a favour and integrate the Elements (maybe with full 16 bit support) pixel editor into a "Super Lightroom" product, for those small professional / advanced amateurs for whom CC is an OTT option. This way you have still captured them and CC is still there as the upgrade option.

Alan


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hollis_f
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May 21, 2013 06:42 |  #6

BigAl007 wrote in post #15952439 (external link)
Having used the full range of tools in the CS version of ACR, could you honestly say that you never use any of those tools?

Of course not, which is why I use LR. But Elements would be good enough to replace PS for those infrequent situations where LR isn't up to the job. And it's what I would be using if I hadn't qualified for the educational version of PS.


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agedbriar
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May 21, 2013 07:15 |  #7

PhotoLine is probably the most powerful in the 2nd league.

http://pl32.com/ (external link)




  
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AdamJL
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May 21, 2013 07:19 |  #8

hollis_f wrote in post #15952349 (external link)
There is/has been plenty of competition - it's just not been good enough.

This in a nutshell really. Which is why we need a big player to enter the market. Shake it up.


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mike_311
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May 21, 2013 07:46 |  #9

more offerings? adobe offers elements for the hobby crowd. you dont get to have L glass if you cant afford L glass.

of course you can rent L glass and now you can rent PS. lol


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CyberDyneSystems
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May 21, 2013 08:20 |  #10

Photoline looks interesting.

there is also;




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Picture ­ North ­ Carolina
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May 21, 2013 08:22 |  #11

Give Corel a chance. After a period of a learning curve, you will fully understand just how powerful it is. It is a good replacement for PS.

I can guarantee that Corel, what with the opportunity handed to them by Adobe on a silver platter, have decided to throw that much more into development.


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hollis_f
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May 21, 2013 08:46 |  #12

Picture North Carolina wrote in post #15952726 (external link)
Give Corel a chance.

They had a chance. Many years ago there was a shareware program called PaintShop that was seen as a very cheap PhotoShop competitor. Over the years it developed into a well-respected alternative to those (like me) who couldn't afford PhotoShop and were too moral to pirate it.

In 2004 it was bought by Corel, who managed to bloat it into almost total unusability. I gather it's since improved but suffers from lack of interest.

And I'd totally forgotten about Corel PhotoPaint - a bitmap editor that I used a lot, mainly because it played nicely with CorelDraw, which I used a lot at the time.

Corel never seemed to know which of the two applications was supposed to do what. I believe both are still available, although maybe only as part of a suite.

If Corel were to combine them into something that people might actually want to use (i.e., something with a good set of basic features that were easy to use and not swamped by a bazillion gimmicks) and they were to sell it at a sensible price, and they could persuade some well-known guys to publicise it (and maybe make loads of cash selling books) and get loads of support written by users. Then they might be able to do something.

My betting is they'll look at PSE and say 'It's not worth the risk'.


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AdamJL
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May 23, 2013 07:56 |  #13

mike_311 wrote in post #15952652 (external link)
more offerings? adobe offers elements for the hobby crowd. you dont get to have L glass if you cant afford L glass.

I'm not sure you got the point of the thread...
I'm saying Adobe are the market. Everyone else is feeding from the scraps. And your suggestion was... More Adobe?? ;)

Thanks for the other suggestions folks. I've got CS6 Master, but will be looking at and testing alternatives soon.


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CyberDyneSystems
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May 23, 2013 15:15 |  #14

" All we are saaaaaying, is give Corel a chance" :lol: :)


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DavidWatts
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May 23, 2013 19:48 |  #15

I'd also like to see Corel step up the bar another notch or two. Especially with a Mac version. Oddly, I still occasionally fire up PSP 7.14 on an ancient Windows platform to do some edits I can't do with DPP. They really knew what they were doing back in the day (PSP - not Windows) ;-)a The new one, X5, not so much, sadly.

I'm looking at Pixelmator for Mac, but I'll have to do some updates to my machine and OS to run it. The price ($15-30) is right.


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