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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 11 May 2013 (Saturday) 11:14
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6D... wow :)

 
BJ_Nguyen
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May 11, 2013 21:35 as a reply to  @ post 15922796 |  #16

Congrats !




  
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Yasick
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May 11, 2013 22:41 |  #17

Must be the happiest man in the world, a baby and a camera.
Grats on your 2 new babies, look after them both.


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May 11, 2013 22:49 |  #18

Talley wrote in post #15922281 (external link)
First off thank you to all for the congrats. Second, this wasn't a decent shot technically but it's one of the few that had been posted to facebook. I have some PHENOMENAL shots that are simply wow.

to Team Speed,

There is simply no comparison. Heres my take. Noise, actual digital high iso noise exists and is visable even at 6400 however appears much more pleasing due to less "color noise". For noise vs. noise I would say an easy 1 stop advantage.

However, detail remaining intact at higher isos this 6D has at least 3 stops advantage. I'm big on the higher iso capability but more so with how much detail is visible and to me there is simply no comparison, the 6D walks all over the 7D. The 6D has about 2/3 stop advantage over my friends 5D3 for noise/detail. I hate the emotional attachment issues I had with only 1 cross type but I loved my 60D and the IQ comes first. I will be back at the hospital this evening which is where all my gear is at now and will setup some controlled tripod tests and compare vs my 7D before I put the 7D up for sale.

I have many photos of my 60d/7d at iso 6400 where the image was wide angle and the face of my kid only took up a small portion of the image and when viewed at 100% the eyes face nose everything kinda just wash together... no detail, however, the 6D contains strands of eyelashes with similiar framing. I'm not talking about a head only shot yes you still get those strands with the 7D I'm talking about a less than 35mm shot with subject 15' away type 100% zoom.

First off - congratulations on the new addition to the family!

Second - dang nabit! All these rave reviews I'm reading lately about the 6D have really got me thinking. I've been contemplating making some changes to my lens line-up; however, I started thinking that if I sell my 60D and other gear, that I could come close to the 6D kit for not too much more cash.

Do you really notice that big of a difference in IQ going from 60D/7D sensor to a 6D full frame sensor? Is the change just going to a full frame sensor, or is it actually the 6D being that good?


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Talley
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May 12, 2013 06:07 |  #19

GoHokiesGo wrote in post #15922981 (external link)
Do you really notice that big of a difference in IQ going from 60D/7D sensor to a 6D full frame sensor? Is the change just going to a full frame sensor, or is it actually the 6D being that good?

I would say at ISO 100-800 you are not going to see a dramatic difference in noise levels. There is more detail with the 6D, particularly in seeing strands of hair and such. I find the 6D handles WB better and exposure better but not sure why. I've only had the 6D for a couple of days so I will get a better idea of a true comparison once I get into different shooting situations.

Above ISO 1000 is where things really get interesting. I just took some sample shots for Team Speed for him to compare and Noise levels are right at 1 2/3 stop better, HOWEVER, the DETAIL is amazing and you can literally compare the detail at the 6D 51200 and it has more detail more sharpness than 7D at 6400 even though it is noisier and loses a bit of contrast and saturation, all of which I can PP back into the image.

I mainly do photos of my family in various conditions. My level of acceptance is lower than most "Pro photographers" who strive for absolute perfection. Most who would say they would only go 1600 max on 7D would have NO issues going 6400 on 6D and possibly even 12800. For me personally I had no issues with 7D's 6400 even though I had to PP pretty hard to get the best out of it and still lacked that fine detail. The 6D I have setup to auto iso up to 25600 and I can select 51200 manually. I am 100% comfortable with going up that high. Now compared to the 5D3 my buddy has I wouldn't go above 12,800 because of excessive banding noise that comes in at 25600 just for me is not pleasant. This is why I struggled with 6D because I love everything about 5D3 except for the above 12,800 which is what I want for those extreme times that I need to.


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JuvarAbrera
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May 12, 2013 06:12 |  #20

Congrats on your camera and also for your baby! Congratulations! :)


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May 12, 2013 07:48 |  #21

Congrats on your new family member! !
My findings with the 6d seem to be exactly like yours when compared to my 60d and a friend's 7d. The detail retained at high ISO is amazing. I also find the AWB and Auto ISO to be superb and really almost make it so easy to use I kind of feel like I'm cheating! ;-)a


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May 12, 2013 07:56 |  #22

Detail would come from 2 things, IMO. The glass working well with the body, and the AA filter. So detail doesn't really concern me too much, because I always match glass to the body at hand, and MFA it until I am very happy with detail at lower ISOs. Noise, however is the issue for me, and how well it can clean up on each color channel. If the 6D is almost 2 stops cleaner, then I can create less aggressive/destructive NR actions for lower ISOs.

Thanks for doing the comparison shots, and if you have a 6400 or 12800 shot from the 6D in raw, I can work on some of my actions to see what I can do with it. I may have to download a new version of DPP though.

My max on the 7D is 6400, 12800 is just pushing it a bit far, but I do sometimes shoot at that level, mostly for fun with the family though. This is a 30% crop from the 7D at 12800 with just a few dim CFLs, where AF almost doesn't lock on. When light is this low (and it was very, very low, 1/25th at 12800 at f3.5), I don't have the time always to try to clean up the photos and the results would be questionable anyways, so I toss them.

It sounds like the 6D would work very well at this setting, not sure about the AF capabilities though as compared to the 5D2/7D/1D4 which all seemed to AF about the same once light went down to these levels.


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Talley
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May 12, 2013 10:11 |  #23

Teamspeed,

FYI the only glass I've been comparing the two bodies thus far is the 40mm pancake. I need to sell my apsc stuff so I can pick up a better zoom


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May 22, 2013 21:36 |  #24

I finally took a look at the raw files from the 6D and 7D that you supplied. I compared the ISO 6400 shots between the two in DPP.

1) You didn't have the 7D set up the same way as the 6D in settings. You had high ISO NR set to Disabled on the 7D and had ALO turned on. The 6D was on standard and had ALO off. My observations of ALO is that on the 7D, it increases noise. I turned it off.

2) The 7D was on faithful picture style, the 6D was on Auto, so the files looked different using in-camera settings. I set the 6D to faithful.

3) The 6D has more aggressive NR values set from the factory vs the 7D. For example at ISO 6400, 11 vs 7 for luminescent NR, 13 for chroma on both. I set the 7D to the values from the 6D.

The 6D definitely has better color, the histogram is substantially different, and noise is better. I am not seeing 2 stops though, once I have the 7D raw and 6D raw equalized the best I can regarding the settings, but that being said, I would love to work with the ISO 6400 shots from the 6D, very easy to clean up. The sharpness difference doesn't bother me much because I already know that any given lens on a FF body could substantially look different on an 18mpx APS-C, and the 40mm pancake appears to be back-focusing on the 7D.

Regarding the more aggressive in-camera NR values from Canon, at 12800, the 7D is at 8/14, and the 6D is at 14/15, both numbers pushed up. It is an interesting observation to see how high these values are compared to the 7D and 5D2.

EDIT: I tried to fix up the 25,600 shots from the 6D. The noise characteristics are quite different than what I had to work with on the 7D, 1D4 and even the 1D3. The red channel seemed cleaner, the green channel was very good, but the blue channel was a mess. I am able to clean it up though, enough that a resized 25600 shot could probably be printed at 8x10 sizes.

Here are the "equalized" ISO 6400 shots between the two (same basic settings in DPP for both raw files), the 6D obviously on the left, 100% crops. I then took the DPP NR sliders all the way down to show what that difference was.


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May 22, 2013 22:06 |  #25

Ya I forgot that on the 6D the pancake is a -2 on the MA and I haven't used it on the 7D at that point nd forgot to set it to that.

If your interested in anything just let me know while I still have my 7D. I can setup shots and get it setup a bit better for ya.


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May 22, 2013 22:09 |  #26

The 7D most likely would need a different value, the MFA value is due to both the camera and lens.

Thank you for the samples!

Here is a resized partial crop of the 25600 shot after a quick cleanup run. If I get a 6D, I can spend more time building an action for it. I would also like to see why Canon has such aggressive NR values set in-camera on the 6D.


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May 22, 2013 22:16 |  #27

TeamSpeed wrote in post #15958497 (external link)
I finally took a look at the raw files from the 6D and 7D that you supplied. I compared the ISO 6400 shots between the two in DPP.

Thank you for taking the time to do this.


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Talley
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May 22, 2013 22:24 |  #28

TeamSpeed wrote in post #15958589 (external link)
The 7D most likely would need a different value, the MFA value is due to both the camera and lens.

Thank you for the samples!

Here is a resized partial crop of the 25600 shot after a quick cleanup run. If I get a 6D, I can spend more time building an action for it. I would also like to see why Canon has such aggressive NR values set in-camera on the 6D.

I love my setup... booby pumps :)

To be honest I use Lightroom editing only so they don't carry over any of the camera settings. When I say I can see a 2-3 stop difference its with my typical minimal editing, sharpness is usually around 35-40 masking around 20 and noise reduction on higher iso like this I usually leave around 11-16, anymore than that takes away the detail.

After I edited both of these images I compared the 7D 6400 to the 6D 25.6k and the 6D was the clear winner. but this is also taking in to the account noise and detail and sharpness all together at once. To me it's a 2 stop advantage and for the average lightroom non extensive editing guy would seem typical also.


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May 22, 2013 22:26 |  #29

Awww!! Congrats!! Our daughter was born at 30 weeks and spent 7 weeks and 3 days in the NICU in 2010! She just wanted out early!! You will prolly take thousands of pics while she's in there. What a nice way to break in a new camera. I broke in my 5D2 during our stay!


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May 22, 2013 22:34 |  #30

I posted the 6400 samples with the NR sliders set to zero (edited the reply with a 2nd sample). So that shows what the diffs are with no nr at all. It is close to 2 stops and with ff being a bit sharper, you should be able to perform 2 stops of noise reduction and still get your detail back out for the most part.


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