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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 28 May 2013 (Tuesday) 15:29
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My ski area crowdsources photographs for their next brochure...

 
Corbeau
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May 28, 2013 15:29 |  #1

So "my" ski area -- 200 miles from where I live, but where I own a ski chalet and volunteer, patrolling every other weekend -- asks on its FB page for submissions to illustrate next year's marketing efforts.

We're talking about their main brochure, a print run of 50,000 copies. But here's the kicker:

* By sending us your photos, you allow Mont SUTTON to use them (advertising, artistic or commercial) without any restriction. You give full rights to Mont SUTTON and its licensed agents to use these photos, without any remuneration. You also waive any claim going against Mont SUTTON.

Ouch.

Yes, I give my time to help others -- lost or injured skiers. But I won't give my photographs to help a company sell itself. Obviously, if this was a community-run, not-for-profit organization I would think differently, but this is Quebec's third or fourth largest ski area (depending on your criteria).

And yet, methinks their email box will see no dearth of submissions...


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frugivore
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May 28, 2013 15:35 |  #2

Corbeau wrote in post #15976559 (external link)
And yet, methinks their email box will see no dearth of submissions...

And I think that they will get some decent submissions, but none that will increase sales as much as professional photographs would have.




  
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Corbeau
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May 28, 2013 15:41 |  #3

And I have no issues about their social media campaign (best weekly Instagram/Twitpic), apart that it's a blatant rip off of what Jay Peak does.

But what's next? "Come help out in the kitchen! Sling some beers at the bar for us! (No remuneration, but the atmosphere's great...)"


Look and think before opening the shutter. The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera. -- Yousuf Karsh

  
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skippix
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May 28, 2013 16:02 |  #4

i wonder how they're going to handle all those model releases...


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Luckless
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May 28, 2013 17:19 |  #5

skippix wrote in post #15976664 (external link)
i wonder how they're going to handle all those model releases...

Yeah, I always had the impression that model release was technically an End-Use issue, not actually the photographer's. So person A could snap a photo of person B while B is clearly identifiable, and then A submits to the image to the company. A cannot sign away B's rights for them, and any usage of B's likeness would result in rather easy lawsuit.

Is the company banking on the odds no one will complain, and if they do going for small pay outs?


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skippix
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May 28, 2013 17:35 |  #6

Luckless wrote in post #15976889 (external link)
Is the company banking on the odds no one will complain, and if they do going for small pay outs?

it sounds like it, which is pretty stupid. releases are exactly as you described, for the end use, and they are absolutely required for commercial usage. if they use any recognizable-face shots, they are leaving themselves wide-open for some litigation.


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juicedownload
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May 29, 2013 09:55 as a reply to  @ skippix's post |  #7

Has the ski resort done this in the past? Maybe they're just looking to see what happens. As for releases, they'll probably pick photos that have unrecognizable faces in them.


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smacatl
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May 29, 2013 10:07 |  #8

skippix wrote in post #15976938 (external link)
if they use any recognizable-face shots, they are leaving themselves wide-open for some litigation.

Maybe they're counting on most of the faces being obscured with scarfs, goggles, hats, etc - with only the mouth and nose exposed. Or, running lots of full body shots from a distance?

Agreed - they would be much better off to have the job don't the right way with a professional.


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drvnbysound
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May 29, 2013 10:48 |  #9

Just curious, is there any chance that the lift tickets or general access has any written guidelines that mention photography and the use of such images? I've never looked for or seen this personally, but I could certainly see someone doing something along these lines.


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Hammy74
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May 29, 2013 11:03 |  #10

I have been to some attractions with very fine print on the ticket saying a condition of entry is that you may be photographed during your stay and photos may be used for promotional purposes without compensation.

I'm not sure if this ski resort has similar wording on their ticket but entering a site with this condition attached should absolve the attraction from obtaining releases from everyone.

Steve


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drvnbysound
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May 29, 2013 11:12 |  #11

Hammy74 wrote in post #15979256 (external link)
I have been to some attractions with very fine print on the ticket saying a condition of entry is that you may be photographed during your stay and photos may be used for promotional purposes without compensation.

I'm not sure if this ski resort has similar wording on their ticket but entering a site with this condition attached should absolve the attraction from obtaining releases from everyone.

Steve

Exactly what I was referring to... I assumed that there are various attractions that may have this sort of condition.


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i_am_cdn
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May 29, 2013 12:31 |  #12

Quebec is the litigation capital of Canada. Also very stringent rules around use of photos of people without consent. I would be shocked if this ski resort would think they could use photos without a release and get away with it.

also wth does this mean "You also waive any claim going against Mont SUTTON. "


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Black ­ Mesa ­ Images
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May 29, 2013 12:31 as a reply to  @ drvnbysound's post |  #13

It is what it is. They are not the first, and they will not be the last company to solicit images for commercial use without the photographer being compensated for it.

Around me neck of the woods, the local telecommunications company solicits once a year for the cover of the phone book. Submissions that don't get chosen, but still get high marks will be put into their calendar.

Local tourism conglomerate had a call for images a few months ago. When questioned about "payment" the reply was "credit is all enough for some artists."

Local newspaper rips off images and uses them.

Do they get their images? Yup. Do they pay? Nope.

There are plenty of people out there who could care less about getting paid and will happily hand over pics to companies without being compensated. That's their right as it is their property to do as they want with it.

I am also a small business owner (non-photography) and I have to pay for my supplies and because it is graphic arts related, I make my own designs and I don't use other artists' designs without paying because that's the way things are supposed to work.

We as photographer who are getting paid or wish to get paid, have to stand up in this losing fight against the entitlement mindset:D


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jimfred
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May 29, 2013 15:32 |  #14

I'm fully in support of Black Mesa Images stand on this. No matter what information-related business you are in there are always moochers and freeloaders who want your intellectual or other property for free. I've seen a remarkably lot of that in my business (renewables consulting, not photography). Better to steer clear of freebie searchers. I make exceptions for public schools and sometimes universities.




  
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JacobPhoto
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May 29, 2013 16:21 |  #15

shocked ---------------*--- not shocked

welcome to 2013, where a 612x612 instagram image is 'good enough' for the cover of a brochure.


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