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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 26 May 2013 (Sunday) 15:28
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Is 300 2.8 II overkill for me?

 
silvex
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May 30, 2013 18:14 |  #106

jrbdmb wrote in post #15983981 (external link)
I would have suggested that your 70-200L is defective or needs adjustment. I was not making any guesses about your "picture taking style."

I lean towards that...a quick trip to canon in NY along the 5D...


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TheLensGuy
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May 30, 2013 20:16 |  #107
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silvex wrote in post #15984010 (external link)
I lean towards that...a quick trip to canon in NY along the 5D...

I don't think you understand the difference between a soft and washed out picture and an out of focus picture (I am being sarcastic here, you being a photographer, I'm sure you do). I'm no pro, but I know enough about these lenses to distinguish between the two. As I said couple of times in this thread already, while buying the 70-200 II, I have tried 4 copies before picking this one (that's 5 in total) from 2 different retailers, over the course of 1-1.5 months. During this period, I have spent considerable amount of time running various tests (pretty much all the ISO chart tests and contrast tests) and picked the best lens I could . The lens focuses perfectly fine, I have no complaints about that. Please tell me how Canon can improve this lens' sharpness. Will they add extra fluoride or another group of glass?:)

I cannot believe that there is such so many of you who think people pay an extra $4500 for a "small improvement". I did say in my OP "kindly" to let people who own this lens to respond only, but I guess this being an internet forum, you cannot force people to leave it alone.




  
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TheLensGuy
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May 30, 2013 20:27 |  #108
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I also invite everyone to read this:

http://slrgear.com …wproduct.php/pr​oduct/1316 (external link)

and

http://slrgear.com …wproduct.php/pr​oduct/1174 (external link)

Pay close attention to where it says:

70-200 II

"The full-frame 5D is even more demanding on the lens. Wide open at ƒ/2.8, the lens shows its best performance at 70mm, with a generous sweet spot of 1-1.5 blur units in the center of the frame, degrading slightly to some corner softness; around 2 blur units. From 100mm and up we note increasing corner softness and a lessening of that sharp sweet spot until it's just over 1.5 blur units in the center and 2 in the corners at 200mm."

also

With the lens mounted on the full-frame 5D, it's a bit more prominent, with +0.5% barrel distortion in the corners at 70mm, and -0.5% pincushion distortion in the corners at 200mm.

200 F/2

Wide open at ƒ/2 on our 20D, our sample of the lens showed a trace of corner softness in the bottom-right corner, barely hitting 2 blur units. Otherwise, image sharpness is very good, showing 1 blur unit in the central region. Stopping down to ƒ/2.8 and you get almost corner-to-corner sharpness at 1 blur unit

and

On the 5D, images show the slightest hint of pincushion distortion in the corners: specifically, -0.1%

That's just one review. If I'm reading that right, that's %50 improvement in the sharpness and 5 times better distortion in the prime's advantage.




  
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silvex
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May 30, 2013 20:32 |  #109

TheLensGuy wrote in post #15984279 (external link)
I don't think you understand the difference between a soft and washed out picture and an out of focus picture (I am being sarcastic here, you being a photographer, I'm sure you do). I'm no pro, but I know enough about these lenses to distinguish between the two. As I said couple of times in this thread already, while buying the 70-200 II, I have tried 4 copies before picking this one (that's 5 in total) from 2 different retailers, over the course of 1-1.5 months. During this period, I have spent considerable amount of time running various tests (pretty much all the ISO chart tests and contrast tests) and picked the best lens I could . The lens focuses perfectly fine, I have no complaints about that. Please tell me how Canon can improve this lens' sharpness. Will they add extra fluoride or another group of glass?:)

I cannot believe that there is such so many of you who think people pay an extra $4500 for a "small improvement". I did say in my OP "kindly" to let people who own this lens to respond only, but I guess this being an internet forum, you cannot force people to leave it alone.

Please publish those ...or a link to the original raw files.

http://www.photozone.d​e …canon_70200_2is​28?start=1 (external link)

BTW and no dis-respect...it looks like your are pixel-peeping.


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TheLensGuy
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May 30, 2013 20:39 |  #110
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silvex wrote in post #15984324 (external link)
Please publish those ...or a link to the original raw files.

I can try, but at this point they are just "files", there is no way for me to sort them and find out which file belongs to which lens. I didn't buy 5 lenses together, I bought 1 or 2 at a time and returned the bad copies. I have used the online ISO chart and contrast tests as published using a tripod, nothing fancy. I have done the same thing with all of my lenses. 70-200 II was the only lens that had such variation (compared to 24-70 II, 35L, 85L, 50L, 24-105L). I remember that either 2nd or 3rd copy just would not focus properly at 70mm even with the maximum micro adjustment (20 I think) in my camera whereas another copy had massive back focus shift at 200mm. I know that my camera isn't bad because all other lenses work perfectly fine with no micro adjustment.

My current copy is perfect in terms of focus across the entire FL range and it is sharp enough around 70-100mm. But after 135-150mm, my pictures look like the ones that came out of 24-105 - a bit washed out and soft. I want them to look like 85L II if that makes sense. If I see them on my mac book air's 13", you can't tell the problem, but if I see them on my 30" at 2560 x 1600 resolution and 100% crop, you can see the softness easily.




  
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CyberDyneSystems
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May 30, 2013 20:40 |  #111

IMHO, the info in the part in bold says it all.

Why he's even asking any of us is the real question. Clearly, we can't understand what he's up to, and personally, I feel good about that.


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TheLensGuy
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May 30, 2013 20:43 |  #112
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CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #15984337 (external link)
IMHO, the info in the part in bold says it all.

Why he's even asking any of us is the real question. Clearly, we can't understand what he's up to, and personally, I feel good about that.

I wasn't and I quit this thread already until I saw the most recent comments. About a page or so back I thanked everyone and said that I wasn't going to pursue the 300mm and that 200mm was the way to go for me.




  
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May 30, 2013 20:52 |  #113

TheLensGuy wrote in post #15984309 (external link)
bottom-right corner, barely hitting 2 blur units

What's a blur unit? Can you see one when you print 16*20?

I feel so left out with this fullframe 40 megapixel nonsense. I'm shooting with a 5 megapixel camera and it's enough to make large prints.

But the way kanoink keeps updating their lenses is ridiculous. 12 elements in a prime will make a very low contrast image. And the lenses cost more.

I hope they'll keep the mirrorless systems affordable for amateurs like me, who don't care about corner sharpness as much.


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TheLensGuy
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May 30, 2013 20:53 |  #114
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DocFrankenstein wrote in post #15984362 (external link)
What's a blur unit? Can you see one when you print 16*20?

http://www.imatest.com​/docs/blur_mtf/ (external link)




  
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TheLensGuy
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May 30, 2013 20:57 |  #115
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silvex wrote in post #15984324 (external link)
Please publish those ...or a link to the original raw files.

http://www.photozone.d​e …canon_70200_2is​28?start=1 (external link)

BTW and no dis-respect...it looks like your are pixel-peeping.

Unfortunately photozone has no reviews of 200 F/2, so that link is meaningless as we cannot compare 70-200 II to anything.




  
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DocFrankenstein
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May 30, 2013 22:52 |  #116

Wow... Now I want to see the gallery of the guy who defined the blur unit. His pictures must be awesome. ;)


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MakisM1
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May 31, 2013 00:24 |  #117

Did you mention you hate the vignetting?...

Comments on 70-200 @200

The sharpest decrease of the brightness in the frame corners we observe at 200 mm. After applying the maximum relative aperture the vignetting reaches 39% (-1.43 EV) and on stopping down the lens to f/4.0 this aberration decreases to the level of 23%. By f/5.6 we deal with still noticeable level of 16% and only by f/8.0 there are no further problems.

http://www.lenstip.com …IS_II_USM_Vigne​tting.html (external link)

Comments on EF 200 L f2.0

On full frame the vignetting is of course bigger but you can call it bothersome only at the maximum relative aperture, where it increase to 48% (-1.87 EV). This aberration becomes moderate by f/2.8 where it amounts to 20% (-0.66 EV). From f/4.0 the problem disappears completely, being there just 4% (-0.10 EV), nothing more than a symbolic value.

Of course it is really horrible at 70-199 mm at any aperture...

http://www.lenstip.com …0L_IS_USM_Vigne​tting.html (external link)

Better luck with the EF200 l f2.8

At the maximum relative aperture the brightness loss in the frame corners gets to 29% (-1.00 EV). The vignetting becomes practically invisible already by f/4.0 where it is just 10% (-0.30 EV).

http://www.lenstip.com …8L_II_USM_Vigne​tting.html (external link)

Crop looks better and better...


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cdang
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May 31, 2013 01:57 |  #118

This thread became a 70-200 2.8 II v 200 F2. No need to justify to others what you want to buy. As you said earlier, people will always be bias to what they own.




  
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May 31, 2013 02:06 |  #119

TheLensGuy wrote in post #15984336 (external link)
I bought 1 or 2 at a time and returned the bad copies.

If there was any question about your character from earlier in the thread, I am sure this comment will remove all doubt.

Too bad we can't link comments like this directly to your credit card information.

Caveat Venditor.


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pyrojim
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May 31, 2013 02:36 |  #120

TheLensGuy wrote in post #15972908 (external link)
Sorry, I didn't come here for investment advice for my retirement:) These type of comments are really not what I was looking for. Where I live, that $5500 will pay for 1 month of mortgage + car payment (barely if it does), you need to understand, it's a big country (world) and not everyone lives the same way.

The same argument can be said for 70-200 F4 vs 70-200 2.8 (let alone II) and we all know there is significant IQ difference between those two lenses. I'm no expert, but I'd say the 200 F2.0 with 1.4 extender would be better than 300 F4. There is a reason why the 300 F4 costs less than a 35L:) In fact, I might as well get the extender NOW and use it with my 70-200 and get similar results to 300 F4.

Some thoughts:
Don't get snippy about investment advice, if some of us also happen to have experience or advanced knowledge of such things, you'd be wise to listen- on a forum this large there are a few people with PhDs and grad students.
There is no need to justify to us, let alone yourself by how much a mortgage and car payment are... If you are leasing or making payments, it just tells me you didn't pay cash...

Now let's ignore the banter for a second. You want to shoot a big sharp lens at the park/beach with your family. Is the 200/2 or 300/2.8 IS2 good for that? Sure. It's also a big lens- the 70-200 IS2 is also that darn good. If you think one of the big teles is better you are a little off ya rocker!

If you want more isolation than the 70-200 offers, you are looking for answers in the wrong camera format...


Also the 70-200 is sharper than the 85L. Period.

Imagine all the time you have spent worrying about what to shoot with instead of just shooting and enjoying the time outdoors with the fam!!!

You should just get a 5D(gen 1) and a 50/1.8. Then you would really enjoy the time!


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