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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 31 May 2013 (Friday) 12:57
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Sync speeds

 
maddy33
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May 31, 2013 12:57 |  #1

I've been shooting roller derby in a dim lit rink with flash corded to a bracket.

Simple stupid question here: Using an 430ex II on a 5DII needing shutter speed of 1/500, does it really mater what shutter speed I'm running since the flash duration dictates the timing? I've been setting the flash in high speed sync, but not sure that it is doing me any good.


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billybookcase
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May 31, 2013 13:11 |  #2

In high speed sync, the flash behaves different than under x-sync speed and fires a bunch of smaller pulses and turns the light into a sort of continuous light rather than one flash. This high speed sync does seem to increase the shot-to-shot time and makes my flash overheat faster.

One suggestion would be the keep the shutter speed slower than x-sync and set the flash to expose for the subject and the shutter to expose for the background. While there may be some ghosting trails from the longer shutter duration, you will have effectively "frozen" the subject with the speedlite off of HSS.


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gonzogolf
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May 31, 2013 13:25 |  #3

If your flash exposure is two stops or more brighter than the ambient you can use the flash duration to freeze the motion. Since the brief burst of light from the flash is usually 1/1000 or less it freezes motion. If you are trying to balance the light and the ambient then you end up with ghosting because the ambient light is recording motion. Bumping the shutter and going into HSS mode may not get what you want, as the shutter speed is not high enough to freeze motion, the flash is no longer a burst of light, but a pulse, and you lose over half of your flash power as soon as you go HSS and it only gets worse as you raise shutter speeds.




  
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maddy33
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May 31, 2013 13:53 |  #4

Thanks guys for that! I wasn't sure how HSS worked.

Billybookcase,
I think what you have explained is something along the lines of this scenario: ISO800, f5, shutter 1/30 (saying that the ambient light dictates those settings), then set the flash to ETTL? Ghosting will be present.

Manual settings on the flash would be most cumbersome and I'd miss a bunch of good shots due to the varying distances of the skaters.

I'll go with settings ISO800, f11, 1/200, ETTL, non-HSS. I think I'll get the best quality, fastest recharge out of the light, good DOF. Go from there


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May 31, 2013 14:48 |  #5

maddy33 wrote in post #15986480 (external link)
I think what you have explained is something along the lines of this scenario: ISO800, f5, shutter 1/30 (saying that the ambient light dictates those settings), then set the flash to ETTL? Ghosting will be present.

maddy33 wrote in post #15986480 (external link)
Manual settings on the flash would be most cumbersome and I'd miss a bunch of good shots due to the varying distances of the skaters.

I'll go with settings ISO800, f11, 1/200, ETTL, non-HSS. I think I'll get the best quality, fastest recharge out of the light, good DOF. Go from there

Keep in mind max distance that a speedlight can reach, and shooting beyond that means underexposure. With a 580EX, ISO800 means that at max FL setting the guide number becomes about 535, and max distance at f/11 is about 48' (if you truly believe the overinflated guide numbers that virtually all flash manufacturers bandy about, which a number of us have proven to be overinflated by about 1EV)


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Phototeacher
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May 31, 2013 15:26 |  #6

You will get a bit more distance if you open up a stop or two. Are you using f/11 because you want to get groups of skaters all in focus, or can you open up to f5.6 and get some increased range?




  
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gonzogolf
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May 31, 2013 15:30 |  #7

Phototeacher wrote in post #15986743 (external link)
You will get a bit more distance if you open up a stop or two. Are you using f/11 because you want to get groups of skaters all in focus, or can you open up to f5.6 and get some increased range?

This, 5.6 gives you enough depth of field for safety sake, but not so much that the person in row 11 behind them isnt razor sharp. It will tax your flash less thus improving burst rate and recycle times.




  
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maddy33
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May 31, 2013 16:19 |  #8

Thinking that f11 will give me more room to fudge on the focus and get more bodies in focus. I'll mess with the stops and see what happens.

Thanks for the input ALL!


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gonzogolf
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May 31, 2013 16:23 |  #9

maddy33 wrote in post #15986904 (external link)
Thinking that f11 will give me more room to fudge on the focus and get more bodies in focus. I'll mess with the stops and see what happens.

Thanks for the input ALL!

The problem with fudge room is you get boring photos, or distracting backgrounds. If you dont get the main subject sharp at 5.6, 11 isnt going to help much in terms of main subject sharpness.




  
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maddy33
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May 31, 2013 16:44 |  #10

I might try switching fstop depending on whom I'm following in the viewfinder and the location on the track. f5.6 far end of the track, f11 close up and personal. Should be simple enough to watch, focus, adjust settings in the camera, watch for the refs and try not to get hit by any of the players.


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May 31, 2013 21:15 |  #11

gonzogolf wrote in post #15986911 (external link)
The problem with fudge room is you get boring photos, or distracting backgrounds. If you dont get the main subject sharp at 5.6, 11 isnt going to help much in terms of main subject sharpness.

Well said.


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May 31, 2013 21:18 |  #12

Not sure of this will be helpful at this point but this video has some decent animations. A PW ad but you don't need a triggering device if the flash is on the camera.

http://www.pocketwizar​d.com …wizard_controlt​l_optimiz/ (external link)


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maddy33
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May 31, 2013 21:34 |  #13

digital paradise wrote in post #15987643 (external link)
Not sure of this will be helpful at this point but this video has some decent animations. A PW ad but you don't need a triggering device if the flash is on the camera.

http://www.pocketwizar​d.com …wizard_controlt​l_optimiz/ (external link)

I saw this in my searches, thus questioning and trying HSS.


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May 31, 2013 21:52 |  #14

maddy33 wrote in post #15987675 (external link)
I saw this in my searches, thus questioning and trying HSS.

The MAJOR issue with HSS is that its light output drops precipitously as shutter speed goes higher and higher, faster than X-sync speed for the camera!

So the ISO800 GN (which I earlier mentioned as about 535) plummets back to about GN268 as soon as you go faster than X-sync (e.g. 1/320, faster than 1/250 for an APS-C camera) and then drops to GN190 at 1/640, 95 at 1/1280. So if you put shutter at 1/640 your flash would reach only 40' at f/5.6


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May 31, 2013 22:09 |  #15

Yes. There is a big exponential power loss as you increase shutter speeds and speed lights are already limited compared to strobes. This is why people opt to use ND filters instead of HSS.


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