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Thread started 03 Jun 2013 (Monday) 11:43
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Bride cancels then reschedules

 
jra
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Jun 03, 2013 13:46 |  #16

gonzogolf wrote in post #15995174 (external link)
You cant have your cake and eat it too. You took the deposit to hold the date. Then it got cancelled so you get the deposit, but you resheduled a free event (not the same as a paying gig) now the original wedding is back and you refuse to shoot it and still want to keep the deposit. Thats not fair. Essentially you want her to pay you to shoot your cousin's wedding.

I agree...the deposit is for the purpose of holding the date and to cover you on that day in case of a cancellation. IMO, you shouldn't keep the deposit and not hold the date.....I think you have 2 options, either shoot the wedding as initially intended (and I assume that you're under contract to do so) or see if she would accept a refund.




  
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SMP_Homer
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Jun 03, 2013 14:40 |  #17

if I rebook, I always refund the deposit but not until that 2nd wedding has been paid in full!


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DocFrankenstein
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Jun 03, 2013 21:18 |  #18

protege wrote in post #15995185 (external link)
I agree with this. End of the day, you booked yourself with another event. Whether you do it for free or for a fee, well that's your call and your loss.

I disagree.

He was ready to shoot the wedding, after the cancellation he has a window of time where he's free to make other plans and make commitments.

Why should his relative get stuck with no photographer on short notice?

What if he booked a plane for a vacation on that weekend? He's not being paid, but he's committed and has investment regarding his plans.

OP's promise to shoot her cousin's wedding is a commitment.

Essentially you want her to pay you to shoot your cousin's wedding.

No. It's not what she wants and it can't be framed that way.

All she wants is to honor her commitmen to her cousin. OP had no obligation to the bride when she booked her cousin's wedding.

When bride comes back changing her mind, it's a new contract because the old one is void.

Nobody gets wedding cancellations in writing.

They brought up the fact that they did not cancel in writing.

They're bullies. Giving into bullies demands to feel good leads to more problems down the road.


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Jun 03, 2013 22:57 as a reply to  @ DocFrankenstein's post |  #19

Given the updated info from the OP....

The OP booked a replacement wedding. The fact that it is unpaid is the OPs choice and as such any loss incurred is the OPs. If they had tried to get a paid gig and were unable to, then keeping the money would be reasonable. As they have instead rebooked the deposit should be returned.

This all pre-supposes that the original wedding really is back on and that the bride isn't claiming it is back on as a way of getting their cancellation refund back.


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DocFrankenstein
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Jun 03, 2013 23:30 |  #20

Dan Marchant wrote in post #15997182 (external link)
Given the updated info from the OP....

The OP booked a replacement wedding. The fact that it is unpaid is the OPs choice and as such any loss incurred is the OPs. If they had tried to get a paid gig and were unable to, then keeping the money would be reasonable. As they have instead rebooked the deposit should be returned.

This all pre-supposes that the original wedding really is back on and that the bride isn't claiming it is back on as a way of getting their cancellation refund back.

So, what's the purpose of having a non-refundable deposit if you refund it when bride cancels?


If you buy an airline ticket and then cancel, and then change my mind and call back... would the airline be in the wrong to sell the ticket to somebody else and keep my money?

The way I see it - tough luck for the bride, unless your contract states refund is possible if another paid job was booked. But even then, doesn't the OP deserve to be compensated for the meet and greet time? Or is that just charity?


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Arman's ­ Photography
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Jun 03, 2013 23:31 |  #21

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #15997267 (external link)
So, what's the purpose of having a non-refundable deposit if you refund it when bride cancels?


If you buy an airline ticket and then cancel, and then change my mind and call back... would the airline be in the wrong to sell the ticket to somebody else and keep my money?

Very well said!


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jra
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Jun 04, 2013 07:29 |  #22

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #15997267 (external link)
So, what's the purpose of having a non-refundable deposit if you refund it when bride cancels?


If you buy an airline ticket and then cancel, and then change my mind and call back... would the airline be in the wrong to sell the ticket to somebody else and keep my money?

If you buy an airline ticket, you can change your mind on whether you fly or not....but that ticket would still be valid for that flight. You could decide not to fly and then change your mind and decide to fly again as many times as you would like up until the date of the ticket.
Another consideration, I'm not sure how the OP's contract is written but he may be under legal obligation to photograph the wedding. Although the bride did cancel verbally and then changed her mind, generally, it's what's in writing that's far more important from a legal standpoint.




  
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icacphotography
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Jun 04, 2013 08:56 |  #23

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #15997267 (external link)
So, what's the purpose of having a non-refundable deposit if you refund it when bride cancels?


If you buy an airline ticket and then cancel, and then change my mind and call back... would the airline be in the wrong to sell the ticket to somebody else and keep my money?

The way I see it - tough luck for the bride, unless your contract states refund is possible if another paid job was booked. But even then, doesn't the OP deserve to be compensated for the meet and greet time? Or is that just charity?

This. The bride is jacking the OP around. I figure it doesn't matter whether the gig that is being substituted is paid or not. When the OP took the deposit it was to hold that date and not book anything else. If the original party cancels I feel the OP should keep the deposit. Refunding it would simply show that hey this photographer can be taken advantage of. Best I'd do is try to find a replacement. Given that if I were the OP given how I shoot I've probably blown off other paid business that day because I thought I had a wedding. Regardless of how I fill my time that day if I gave up other paid jobs to shoot a wedding and then get jacked around like this I'd simply tell the bride sorry but you cancelled my services I have since found another venue for the same date your deposit is non refundable.

TL;DR OP should keep the deposit as per the contract the bride in this case is in the wrong and if she's stuck without a photog that's not the OP's problem.


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Jun 04, 2013 10:00 |  #24

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #15997267 (external link)
So, what's the purpose of having a non-refundable deposit if you refund it when bride cancels?

If you buy an airline ticket and then cancel, and then change my mind and call back... would the airline be in the wrong to sell the ticket to somebody else and keep my money?

The way I see it - tough luck for the bride, unless your contract states refund is possible if another paid job was booked. But even then, doesn't the OP deserve to be compensated for the meet and greet time? Or is that just charity?

Airlines sell tickets for seats. Yes, if you cancel, they can sell your seat to someone else.

That said, I've had to cancel flights before and each time the airline has reserved my ticket price (e.g. voucher) which I could use anytime within a a year from the date of purchase. Certainly a different circumstance...


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Jun 05, 2013 21:08 as a reply to  @ drvnbysound's post |  #25

Airline tickets aside :) , yes, sometimes the clients can be over excited or difficult to deal with but lets be honest, you piss the Bride off who is going to suffer?

We all know the answer!

It is always better not to have a wedding and no income from it than a wedding, income and mad clients who will make sure you get a bad name and there for less bookings!


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Jun 05, 2013 22:07 |  #26

Armans Photography wrote in post #16004004 (external link)
=Arman's Photography;16004004]A​irline tickets aside :) , yes, sometimes the clients can be over excited or difficult to deal with but lets be honest, you piss the Bride off who is going to suffer?

We all know the answer!

It is always better not to have a wedding and no income from it than a wedding, income and mad clients who will make sure you get a bad name and there for less bookings!

I wasn't saying it's the right thing for the business in the long term. I was merely replying to someone who framed the OP as being at fault.

This makes me curious about the pricing bracket. Usually people say that if you raise your prices, the clients seem to give you less trouble like this.

And playing devil's advocate, if her friends are like her, I'm not sure I'd want clients like this:

I'll sue you because I didn't cancel in writing


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Jun 06, 2013 09:51 |  #27

DocFrankenstein wrote in post #16004133 (external link)
I wasn't saying it's the right thing for the business in the long term. I was merely replying to someone who framed the OP as being at fault.

This makes me curious about the pricing bracket. Usually people say that if you raise your prices, the clients seem to give you less trouble like this.

And playing devil's advocate, if her friends are like her, I'm not sure I'd want clients like this:

Well, yes, no one wants to go trough this problem.
But the fact is that the OP did not get the cancellation in writing!
This is common sense to most wedding photographers or business owners that any booking or cancellation has to be signed,or at least e-mailed, verbal agreement is worthless!

In legal aspect the Bride is right! She is not the nicest or brightest lady in the World but she is right legally and therefore she can sue OP if she wants.

Photographing weddings is a business and every photographer has to see it that way, pro or not, you have a legal obligation!

That is what separates pro's and no's, I may sound harsh here but this is my reality too!

I had to pay a lawyer to put my contract together, I have backup gear, insurance and many things that a pro photographer has to have to operate his business.

A verbal cancellation is just a proof of those glitches that can happen when not being careful.

We all make mistakes and therefore my first respond and advise to the OP was get someone to cover this girls wedding! Even if you loose the money!!!

Take the Life with least resistance ;)


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Jun 06, 2013 10:36 |  #28

Armans Photography wrote in post #16005415 (external link)
=Arman's Photography;16005415]I​n legal aspect the Bride is right! She is not the nicest or brightest lady in the World but she is right legally and therefore she can sue OP if she wants.

Actually, she's not right. She did indeed cancel. A verbal cancellation would have all the same weight as a written one, IF the original contract does not demand a written cancellation AND it can be proven that the conversation actually took place. In this particular case, she admitted that it took place when she said that she didn't cancel in writing, thus acknowledging the fact that the verbal conversation happened.

Her own mouth was her undoing.


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thebishopp
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Jun 06, 2013 10:55 |  #29

CraigPatterson wrote in post #16005568 (external link)
Actually, she's not right. She did indeed cancel. A verbal cancellation would have all the same weight as a written one, IF the original contract does not demand a written cancellation AND it can be proven that the conversation actually took place. In this particular case, she admitted that it took place when she said that she didn't cancel in writing, thus acknowledging the fact that the verbal conversation happened.

Her own mouth was her undoing.

I agree. and regarding Doc's analogy of a plane ticket and people's response that they get vouchers... the OP can issue a "voucher" for the amount of the deposit for other photographic services if they wish to be gracious.

BUT

Like others have noted I would wait till after the wedding date (or make some note of it on the "voucher") to be sure this isn't some kind of ploy by the bride to go around getting her deposits back.


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Jun 06, 2013 10:59 as a reply to  @ thebishopp's post |  #30

I would ask everyone here:

Would you rather go to the court and proof you are right or simply find a damn replacement?


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