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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 07 Jun 2013 (Friday) 07:46
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Reversing/Combining Lenses for Macro pictures

 
Sciurus
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Jun 07, 2013 07:46 |  #1

Hi there

I bougt myself a Canon EOS 60D with this lens (Canon EFS 17-85mm) a year ago.
http://www.amazon.com/​dp/B0002Y5WXO (external link)

Now I want to take Macro pictures and I like to build my own things instead of just buying pre made.

I have heard of two good ways to do this Reversing ore combining lenses.
What type of lense should i mount in reverse on my existing lense to get the best macro for less money?

I'm also waiting fore some ''smart'' spacers and filters in the mail, but the combining lenses and spacers sold get me better results?

bestregards.
Michael




  
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DreDaze
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Jun 07, 2013 10:11 |  #2

if by spacers you mean extension tubes, i'd just wait till you get those...it's a whole lot easier than reversing a lens...

do you have another lens to reverse? if not, I'd suggest picking up the 50mm f1.8....it's a cheap lens, that will be good to have regularly, would pair well with the tubes, and could also be reversed fairly easily

as for making your own things, I'd think it'd be pretty difficult to make a male to male reversing ring, and would find the $5 off of ebay a much more sensible option


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Mike ­ K
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Jun 07, 2013 12:23 |  #3

Sciurus wrote in post #16008302 (external link)
I have heard of two good ways to do this Reversing ore combining lenses.
What type of lense should i mount in reverse on my existing lense to get the best macro for less money?

I'm also waiting fore some ''smart'' spacers and filters in the mail, but the combining lenses and spacers sold get me better results?

If you reverse the lens you will need a fully manual lens with manual control of both the aperture and focus. Canon EOS mount use electronic control of aperture, so this will not work with Canon EF/EFS lenses.

Spacers (extension tubes) often have electrical contacts to allow AF and aperture control of the lens by the camera body, and have no optical elements. The downside is that the depth of field will be exceedingly thin, and you will get far less light, perhaps requiring a flash to not get vibration blurring from excessively long shutter speeds. Also with an extension tube you will loose the capability of infinity focus and may need to get extremely close to your subject to get the magnification desired. Do you want to shoot 10cm flowers in bright sunlight or 0.5 cm insects in the shade?
Mike K


Canon 6D, 1DmkII, IR modified 5DII with lots of Canon L, TSE and Zeiss ZE lenses

  
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pulsar123
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Jun 07, 2013 12:37 |  #4

When stacking a reversed lens on top of your other lens, here are the factors to consider:

- Magnification will be proportional to FL1/FL2, FL1 being FL for the on-camera lens, FL2 is for the reversed lens. So to gain maximum magnification you'd go for telephoto on-camera lens and widest possible reversed lens. In my experience, both lenses have to be fairly fast, to avoid any vignetting. (E.g., placing my Sigma 10-20 f4.0 reversed on top of my 135L resulted in terrible vignetting - only a tiny circle of light was visible).
- Going after too large magnifications, by using very wide reversed lens, will not result in better details resolution in my experience: placing 28mm f2.8 reversed on top of 135L did produce larger magnification than with reversed 50mm f2.0, but didn't resolve finer details (so you only get smaller field of view). I think 35mm (f2.8-3.5) is the widest you wanna go.
- It is very convenient to use MF reversed lens - because of the manual aperture control. You need wide open aperture during focusing, and then manually closing it down to f5.6-f/8 before shooting, to maximize DoF. (Changing the aperture of the on-camera lens doesn't make any difference, until the point when you start seeing sharp vignetting, when the aperture becomes too small. I think you should simply keep the on-camera lens wide open.)
- Many would say you don't need AF for macro, but at least sometimes (for slowly moving or still objects) this can be very helpful: one can run a sequence of shots with slowly changing focus of the on-camera lens, to be used for focus stacking (to greatly increase DoF). One can use a laptop tethered to the camera + automatic focusing software, or even more conveniently - alternative firmware Magic Lantern. You can get results like this (reversed 50mm on top of 135L):

IMAGE: http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6070/6039630737_1422ecd7cf_n.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/syamastro/60396​30737/  (external link)
TEST: DIY macro lens (external link) by syamastro (external link), on Flickr

6D, Tamron 24-70 f2.8 VC, 135L, 70-200 f4L, Laowa 15mm 1:1 macro, 50mm f1.8 STM, Samyang 8mm fisheye, home studio

  
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Sciurus
THREAD ­ STARTER
Hatchling
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Joined Jun 2013
     
Jun 07, 2013 13:14 |  #5

DreDaze wrote in post #16008678 (external link)
if by spacers you mean extension tubes, i'd just wait till you get those...it's a whole lot easier than reversing a lens...

do you have another lens to reverse? if not, I'd suggest picking up the 50mm f1.8....it's a cheap lens, that will be good to have regularly, would pair well with the tubes, and could also be reversed fairly easily

as for making your own things, I'd think it'd be pretty difficult to make a male to male reversing ring, and would find the $5 off of ebay a much more sensible option

Sounds great il go look them up on Ebay. Yeah I ment extensiontubes with signal transfering through them so I can use autofocus and so on. As for the male to male reversing ring your right i'll buy them instead of making them.




  
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Sciurus
THREAD ­ STARTER
Hatchling
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Joined Jun 2013
     
Jun 07, 2013 13:24 |  #6

pulsar123 wrote in post #16009137 (external link)
When stacking a reversed lens on top of your other lens, here are the factors to consider:

- Magnification will be proportional to FL1/FL2, FL1 being FL for the on-camera lens, FL2 is for the reversed lens. So to gain maximum magnification you'd go for telephoto on-camera lens and widest possible reversed lens. In my experience, both lenses have to be fairly fast, to avoid any vignetting. (E.g., placing my Sigma 10-20 f4.0 reversed on top of my 135L resulted in terrible vignetting - only a tiny circle of light was visible).
- Going after too large magnifications, by using very wide reversed lens, will not result in better details resolution in my experience: placing 28mm f2.8 reversed on top of 135L did produce larger magnification than with reversed 50mm f2.0, but didn't resolve finer details (so you only get smaller field of view). I think 35mm (f2.8-3.5) is the widest you wanna go.
- It is very convenient to use MF reversed lens - because of the manual aperture control. You need wide open aperture during focusing, and then manually closing it down to f5.6-f/8 before shooting, to maximize DoF. (Changing the aperture of the on-camera lens doesn't make any difference, until the point when you start seeing sharp vignetting, when the aperture becomes too small. I think you should simply keep the on-camera lens wide open.)
- Many would say you don't need AF for macro, but at least sometimes (for slowly moving or still objects) this can be very helpful: one can run a sequence of shots with slowly changing focus of the on-camera lens, to be used for focus stacking (to greatly increase DoF). One can use a laptop tethered to the camera + automatic focusing software, or even more conveniently - alternative firmware Magic Lantern. You can get results like this (reversed 50mm on top of 135L):

QUOTED IMAGE
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/syamastro/60396​30737/  (external link)
TEST: DIY macro lens (external link) by syamastro (external link), on Flickr

That was aloot of information but made me how things work and it's not only to combine two lenses but they have to work together. I did not know that you could run other softwares on the cameras. I'm downloading Magic Lantern now, do you have any experience with it?




  
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Sciurus
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Hatchling
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Jun 07, 2013 13:26 |  #7

Mike K wrote in post #16009097 (external link)
If you reverse the lens you will need a fully manual lens with manual control of both the aperture and focus. Canon EOS mount use electronic control of aperture, so this will not work with Canon EF/EFS lenses.

Spacers (extension tubes) often have electrical contacts to allow AF and aperture control of the lens by the camera body, and have no optical elements. The downside is that the depth of field will be exceedingly thin, and you will get far less light, perhaps requiring a flash to not get vibration blurring from excessively long shutter speeds. Also with an extension tube you will loose the capability of infinity focus and may need to get extremely close to your subject to get the magnification desired. Do you want to shoot 10cm flowers in bright sunlight or 0.5 cm insects in the shade?
Mike K

You wil get the same effekt by using extension tubes instead of reversing the lense (in a way)?
I bought the ones with AF aperture controll.




  
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pulsar123
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Jun 07, 2013 14:06 |  #8

Sciurus wrote in post #16009291 (external link)
That was aloot of information but made me how things work and it's not only to combine two lenses but they have to work together. I did not know that you could run other softwares on the cameras. I'm downloading Magic Lantern now, do you have any experience with it?

I haven't used ML for focus stacking, but you can find tutorials around, e.g. this one:

http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=CcRVXuc6Yt4 (external link)


6D, Tamron 24-70 f2.8 VC, 135L, 70-200 f4L, Laowa 15mm 1:1 macro, 50mm f1.8 STM, Samyang 8mm fisheye, home studio

  
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xerxes2013
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7 posts
Joined Sep 2013
Location: Deep South, USA
     
Sep 30, 2013 04:53 |  #9

I'm new to macro photography, but I have an old Mamiya Sekor SX 1.8 55mm lens (52mm front thread) in great condition from a Mamiya 35mm camera. As for telephoto, I have a Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS (58mm front thread). What would I need to stack the two, to create a macro lens? An extension tube? A reverse adapter? Is it even worth it, with my two lenses?

edit: since my signature isn't showing up (weird), I should note that I'm primarily using a Canon 7D.


Canon 7D, Canon 350D
Hobbyist photographer with dreams of pro-photographer grandeur. I have a lot to learn, but I'm enjoying the lessons.

  
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DreDaze
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Sep 30, 2013 10:15 |  #10

xerxes2013 wrote in post #16335034 (external link)
I'm new to macro photography, but I have an old Mamiya Sekor SX 1.8 55mm lens (52mm front thread) in great condition from a Mamiya 35mm camera. As for telephoto, I have a Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS (58mm front thread). What would I need to stack the two, to create a macro lens? An extension tube? A reverse adapter? Is it even worth it, with my two lenses?

edit: since my signature isn't showing up (weird), I should note that I'm primarily using a Canon 7D.

http://www.ebay.com …Tubes&hash=item​4858352eb6 (external link)


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Reversing/Combining Lenses for Macro pictures
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