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Thread started 30 May 2013 (Thursday) 19:06
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Cannot take photos at my daughters recital??? please read statement by dance studio

 
stanclark
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Jun 06, 2013 23:54 |  #61

This is standard practice....my daughter studio does full dress and tech rehearsal so I shoot that.. show photographer took horrible pictures the last 4 years but they give a kickback to the studio...same crap at my kids school....bad photos school gets a discount...


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Jun 07, 2013 00:04 |  #62

stan, offer the studio and school 5% more kickback, and raise your prices by 5% even more. :D


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Jun 08, 2013 18:26 as a reply to  @ GerryDavid's post |  #63

I completely agree with the entire statement made by the dance studio ontop of it being "their house, their rules".

It's a standard practice in theater shooting that all photos are done during the dress rehearsal and no photos are allowed from the main house during a live show. This is due to the disturbance caused to an audience by a photographer shooting in the main house with the exception of photographers capable of shooting non-disruptively (ie soundblimps or silent shutter modes). Revenue is another part of it in some cases.

I shoot both professional level companies and student recitals and can attest to how distracting/annoying it is to everyone in the house when there are audience members snapping away bursts on their DSLR's or raising a bright camera phone during a live show.

Definitely talk with them though if they don't have someone already shooting so you could set up in a discrete area and shoot in a non-disruptive manner. I shoot using the silent mode on the 1D with a leather jacket wrapped around the camera as long as it isn't too loud and check the noise level beforehand. If it's too loud, I get my front of house shots during the dress run and the live show shots from the wings.


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pendragonphotos
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Sep 25, 2013 01:01 |  #64

I just came across your post, and I have a unique perspective as both a studio owner AND a professional photographer. Maybe I can help you understand why the policy is in place...

Here are some of the reasons we do not allow photography or videography at recitals (or even dress rehearsals at my school).

1. How do we know where those photos and videos will end up? For the safety of the kids, we just cannot have photos and videos lurking around the internet.

2. We don't want our choreography or costume ideas leaking all over the internet either for proprietary reasons. The dance world is incredibly competitive and most studio owners lack creativity for some reason. You Tube is bad news for those of us who actually work hard to come up with great productions on our own. We just want to protect our work.

3. You're a photographer, and you have a Canon, right? Remember the annoying clicks and beeps and bright LCD lights your camera makes? That's frustrating to the people around you AND me as the director on the side of the stage trying to focus on your child not the flashes and noises coming from the front row. CLICK-CLICK CLICK-CLICK- CLICK- BEEP- BEEP- CLICK-CLICK

4. I make my living, as a professional photographer, from taking photos of your kiddo before, after, and during recital, and so does the videographer. That's our income. If you're taking all your own photos and videos, what is in it for us to work so hard for nothing?

5. Our reputation is on the line. If you take a horrible photo and post it all over facebook, the studio might look bad as a result.

6. If you're busy taking photos and videos of your daughter during the show, who is taking care of her backstage? Hopefully another parent, but often times kids miss cues because parents want to watch instead of help their kid.

I'm going to stop because I think 6 reasons are plenty enough, but it sounds like everyone who has replied before me has also agreed with me that the director made it very clear she did not allow photography during the show. You agreed to follow her policies when you enrolled your daughter, and you're paying for her expertise as your daughter's teacher or owner of the studio. If you make a big fuss backstage and take the director away from helping the kids (to address your complaints about not wanting to follow the rules), you're just going to upset her and make her not want to teach/help your child anymore. It's very unlikely to make any change occur, and trust me... she'll remember you... and so will everyone who overhears your conversation. And not in a good way.

So I hope for everyone's sake that you chose to cooperate with the other parents and staff at your daughter's recital and that it was beautiful, memorable, and the pro's DVD and photos were good enough. I know it's tough when you're a photographer and you KNOW you can get a better shot and it's your kid after all.. I get you.

;)
Peace. Love. Canon.


Talley wrote in post #15984131 (external link)
Ok, so my daughter has her first dance recital coming up. My wife told me they were not allowing any videoing because they are doing professional video. So I was OK with this and paid the $25 for the video. Now I have equipment to take photos that are of "pro" status and I know how to use it. My wife told me today AFTER the dress rehearsal that I wasn't allowed to take photos either. I could understand this if they had a hired photographer also but they don't, just a video guy. I wasn't planning on using flash as I don't feel I need it. I think their statement should be "NO FLASH PHOTOGRAPHY".

I'm thinking of approaching the lady because I didn't get any photos tonight at the rehearsal due to my rushing over there after work and my original anticipation of taking photos during the recital.
EDIT: It was not a rehearsal, was just a 4 minute practice at the dance studio because they don't let the first year young ones on stage until the day of.

So should I take photos anyway or ask the lady for permission or what? I cannot believe I cannot take photos of her during the actual recital especially them not having a photographer.

Also what doesn't make sense is they hired a pro photographer for tonight's dress rehearsal to take photos, which I bought, but they said you are allowed to take photos then?... this is so damn backwards

Here is the disclaimer.




  
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DocFrankenstein
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Sep 25, 2013 01:38 |  #65

pendragonphotos wrote in post #16323422 (external link)
1. How do we know where those photos and videos will end up? For the safety of the kids, we just cannot have photos and videos lurking around the internet.

2. We don't want our choreography or costume ideas leaking all over the internet either for proprietary reasons. The dance world is incredibly competitive and most studio owners lack creativity for some reason. You Tube is bad news for those of us who actually work hard to come up with great productions on our own. We just want to protect our work.

If you sell the pictures, they can still end up on the internet. Either way media is produced and can end up online... and it always does.

3. You're a photographer, and you have a Canon, right? Remember the annoying clicks and beeps and bright LCD lights your camera makes? That's frustrating to the people around you AND me as the director on the side of the stage trying to focus on your child not the flashes and noises coming from the front row. CLICK-CLICK CLICK-CLICK- CLICK- BEEP- BEEP- CLICK-CLICK

There's silent modes and the LCD can be turned off.

4. I make my living, as a professional photographer, from taking photos of your kiddo before, after, and during recital, and so does the videographer. That's our income. If you're taking all your own photos and videos, what is in it for us to work so hard for nothing?

If you work hard, your pictures should be better than some guy's who has a canon. They'll want to pay you and there's no reason to have exclusive rights.

5. Our reputation is on the line. If you take a horrible photo and post it all over facebook, the studio might look bad as a result.

Your reputation can be spoiled by one bad photo? Do you honestly believe that? Do you expect me to believe it?

6. If you're busy taking photos and videos of your daughter during the show, who is taking care of her backstage? Hopefully another parent, but often times kids miss cues because parents want to watch instead of help their kid.

I'm confused. Are parents backstage or are they enjoying the show? There's no dance teacher that changes costumes?

you're just going to upset her and make her not want to teach/help your child anymore.

That's a choice she can make. Nobody wants their kid to go to a studio where their child isn't welcome.

I've actually had a situation like this with my cousin. I asked and after a small chat they were fine with pictures with no flash. But this is a second studio where we transferred from a more "established" company and we're very happy with the choice.

Peace. Love. Hugs. Kisses.


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photoguy6405
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Sep 25, 2013 11:04 |  #66

pendragonphotos wrote in post #16323422 (external link)
1. How do we know where those photos and videos will end up? For the safety of the kids, we just cannot have photos and videos lurking around the internet.

This is just weak.

pendragonphotos wrote in post #16323422 (external link)
2. We don't want our choreography or costume ideas leaking all over the internet either for proprietary reasons. The dance world is incredibly competitive and most studio owners lack creativity for some reason. You Tube is bad news for those of us who actually work hard to come up with great productions on our own. We just want to protect our work.

Yet you're going to perform in public.

pendragonphotos wrote in post #16323422 (external link)
4. I make my living, as a professional photographer, from taking photos of your kiddo before, after, and during recital, and so does the videographer. That's our income. If you're taking all your own photos and videos, what is in it for us to work so hard for nothing?

By this reasoning I should be forbidden from changing my own oil. Or, cooking my own meals. No, I'm obligated to spend money for a service that I don't need (because I can do it myself) because somebody else might want to be paid for it.

Not to mention that my primary financial obligation is to MY family, and I don't serve my family well by pissing away money for a service that I can do myself.

pendragonphotos wrote in post #16323422 (external link)
5. Our reputation is on the line. If you take a horrible photo and post it all over facebook, the studio might look bad as a result.

Your reputation is shaky to begin with if it's that fragile.

pendragonphotos wrote in post #16323422 (external link)
6. If you're busy taking photos and videos of your daughter during the show, who is taking care of her backstage? Hopefully another parent, but often times kids miss cues because parents want to watch instead of help their kid.

As another person countered, this makes no sense whatsoever.

pendragonphotos wrote in post #16323422 (external link)
I'm going to stop because I think 6 reasons are plenty enough,...

No offense intended, but not a single one of your 6 reasons were valid. They merely screamed, "I need protectionist rules."


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flashpoint99
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Sep 25, 2013 16:04 as a reply to  @ pendragonphotos's post |  #67

(Here are some of the reasons we do not allow photography or videography at recitals (or even dress rehearsals at my school).

(1. How do we know where those photos and videos will end up? For the safety of the kids, we just cannot have photos and videos lurking around the internet.)


At dance Comps your students pictures are taken and put up for sale by the people who run the Comp and by you at your Recital as you have stated. They are most likely already on there website as well as posted in the lobby of the venue on 15 different computers. So this argument is pretty weak. All you are doing is preventing families from taking pictures of there own children for personal use at their own studios Recital.

(2. We don't want our choreography or costume ideas leaking all over the internet either for proprietary reasons. The dance world is incredibly competitive and most studio owners lack creativity for some reason. You Tube is bad news for those of us who actually work hard to come up with great productions on our own. We just want to protect our work.)


I will give you this one in part as far as video goes but when it comes to photos this is also a weak argument. The students are judged on how they dance not what they are wearing.( at least they are supposed to be although most of the time the judging at these events is mind boggling as to what they are looking for) The odds of another studio in your area seeing a photo of a students costume online then copying that outfit is minimal at best.

(3. You're a photographer, and you have a Canon, right? Remember the annoying clicks and beeps and bright LCD lights your camera makes? That's frustrating to the people around you AND me as the director on the side of the stage trying to focus on your child not the flashes and noises coming from the front row. CLICK-CLICK CLICK-CLICK- CLICK- BEEP- BEEP- CLICK-CLICK)


I dont know what beeps you are hearing but my canon does not beep. I have shot my daughters recitals for years and have yet to be told I annoyed or distracted anyone. Im sure it does happen when people dont follow the rules ,however if you set those pre show ground rules you'd find almost everyone will follow them. If people are using flash then they need to be told that is not permitted just like in ALL dance venues. This one is not an issue with just your studio this is across the board at all dance venues.

(4. I make my living, as a professional photographer, from taking photos of your kiddo before, after, and during recital, and so does the videographer. That's our income. If you're taking all your own photos and videos, what is in it for us to work so hard for nothing?)


It took you to #4 to finally get down to the meat of your issue. You sell the photos and dont want the parents taking away your income from those photos. I can understand that to a point however it has to be tough to swallow when someone isnt allowed to take photos of their own child at a studio recital, especially when they pay that studio upwards of $1000 a month for dance lesson. There are still plenty of parents who do not have the professional equipment or knowledge to get that nice shot of their child. Those parent are willing to pay for a photo.


(5. Our reputation is on the line. If you take a horrible photo and post it all over facebook, the studio might look bad as a result.)

This is pure BS! Your reputation as a studio in no way is compromised by what you may consider a bad photo. Thats like saying a basketball teams reputation will be compromised by a bad photo during a game!

(6.If you're busy taking photos and videos of your daughter during the show, who is taking care of her backstage? Hopefully another parent, but often times kids miss cues because parents want to watch instead of help their kid.)

Seriously? So what about those parents in the audience, sitting in the seats watching the show?
What do you and your staff get paid for again? Do you get paid as a photographer or as a studio owner and instructor?........How are you taking photos and taking care of the children at the same time? Are you somehow in two places at the same time and you expect the parents to do the same? LOL, This ones more than weak its absurd!


(I'm going to stop because I think 6 reasons are plenty enough)


I think you should have started and stopped with #4 because it is the true issue here. This is the same reason the people who put on dance Comps do not allow photos to be taken. It about the money.You just need to own it!




  
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sirquack
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Sep 25, 2013 16:19 |  #68

I am glad I am not the only one who thinks Pendragon is completely out of their mind.
As for #1, if people were worried about what might appear on the internet, no pictures, pro or otherwise would be allowed. And after going to a few of these performances, what they kids were wearing was almost lewd IMHO. So your right, that maybe they shouldn't allow pictures because there are a lot of perverts out there that might enjoy the skimpy costumes too much.
As for #2, similar response to #1, if there is that much lack of creativity, then no photos should be allowed period because they can steal ideas from the pro's pictures as well as momma Becky's.
#3, you really think that coming onto a Canon dominated forum and bagging on Canon gear is going to endear you to the readers of this forum? And as others have said, I can turn off the beeps and the LCD in a quick second. Yes the mirror is gonna make a noise, but that is the same for any SLR.
#4, it is clearly your choice to make a living as a pro photographer, and you can't provide a quality product that people want to buy for those folks that don't have effective gear, then I think you might have bigger issues.
#5, How will your reputation be sullied by a bad photo. I don't think I have ever seen a photo on facebook that made me think, "wow, that statue in Chicago looks like crap in that picture, I am never going to go there and take a look since it OBVIOUSLY looks like that in real life!"
And finally #6. Most studio's have volunteers helping the kids get ready, they can't be watching the show, helping out and taking pictures all at once. So you obviously misunderstand who the customer is.
As mentioned by photoguy above, it does sound like you need all the protection you can get from us Evil "Canon" photographers who are stealing food off your table by taking better pictures than you can with our horrible gear.


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cpam.pix
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Sep 26, 2013 09:13 |  #69

I'm in line with a lot of Pendragon's thoughts.

I am on the Board of Directors for a children's theatre group. I am also the Staff Photographer. As a board member, one of the responsibilities is to protect the organization. Theatre (and dance) get into some very interesting copyright rules for protecting intellectual property. It is possible that you would need photo releases for individuals acting (signed by an adult guardian), the set designer, the makeup artists, the lighting designer, the choreographer, the director, and the organization you bought the rights from to perform if you were to sell pictures from the show. If I allow others to take pictures, any one of those people can come after the photographer or the organization. I can't allow that to happen to the organization.

I have everyone associated with the show sign releases upfront. (Your kid does not get cast if you don't sign a photo release for the troupe.) This gives us rights to promote the theatre in any form of media and sell pictures/calenders, etc. as fundraisers. We do not, however, take photos during the actual performances.

Yes, we still have the parents who sneak in their video cameras, cell phones, and pro gear. They don't turn off the flashes, extra beeps and clicks and they flash their LCDs at everyone in the audience. Many don't even know the sounds can be turned off. They spray and pray. It becomes distracting to the audience. I've watched from the balcony as patrons give the evil eye to those snapping away from the middle of the audience.

We don't allow show performance photography. We are not licensed for it. If parents want to come to rehearsals for some shots that is great. I'll even let them borrow my equipment and help them get good shots.

All the work is done before the performances so that the magic of live performances can be preserved.


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flashpoint99
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Sep 26, 2013 11:02 |  #70

cpam.pix wrote in post #16326704 (external link)
I'm in line with a lot of Pendragon's thoughts.

I am on the Board of Directors for a children's theatre group. I am also the Staff Photographer. As a board member, one of the responsibilities is to protect the organization. Theatre (and dance) get into some very interesting copyright rules for protecting intellectual property. It is possible that you would need photo releases for individuals acting (signed by an adult guardian), the set designer, the makeup artists, the lighting designer, the choreographer, the director, and the organization you bought the rights from to perform if you were to sell pictures from the show. If I allow others to take pictures, any one of those people can come after the photographer or the organization. I can't allow that to happen to the organization.

I have everyone associated with the show sign releases upfront. (Your kid does not get cast if you don't sign a photo release for the troupe.) This gives us rights to promote the theatre in any form of media and sell pictures/calenders, etc. as fundraisers. We do not, however, take photos during the actual performances.

Yes, we still have the parents who sneak in their video cameras, cell phones, and pro gear. They don't turn off the flashes, extra beeps and clicks and they flash their LCDs at everyone in the audience. Many don't even know the sounds can be turned off. They spray and pray. It becomes distracting to the audience. I've watched from the balcony as patrons give the evil eye to those snapping away from the middle of the audience.

We don't allow show performance photography. We are not licensed for it. If parents want to come to rehearsals for some shots that is great. I'll even let them borrow my equipment and help them get good shots.

All the work is done before the performances so that the magic of live performances can be preserved.

There is a big difference between a Dance Studios Recital and a Dance Comp. Dance Comps like Starbound and KAR are designged to make money by entrance fees, charging for photos ,videos , selling merchandise ect. A Dance Recital is a performance for the parents of a Dance studio. It is put on to show the parents the dances that are going to be performed for that particular years dance season. Not allowing parents to photograph or video their child at their own studios recital is ridiculous!
Pendragon's reasons are weak at best and border on the ridiculous! It is very apparent she doesnt allow photography at her recital because it will cut into her wallet. Id have alot more respect for her opinion if she would just own that instead of making up a list of bogus excuses.




  
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Talley
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Sep 26, 2013 19:58 |  #71

flashpoint99 wrote in post #16326932 (external link)
There is a big difference between a Dance Studios Recital and a Dance Comp. Dance Comps like Starbound and KAR are designged to make money by entrance fees, charging for photos ,videos , selling merchandise ect. A Dance Recital is a performance for the parents of a Dance studio. It is put on to show the parents the dances that are going to be performed for that particular years dance season. Not allowing parents to photograph or video their child at their own studios recital is ridiculous!
Pendragon's reasons are weak at best and border on the ridiculous! It is very apparent she doesnt allow photography at her recital because it will cut into her wallet. Id have alot more respect for her opinion if she would just own that instead of making up a list of bogus excuses.

I didn't realize that this got brought back up. Thanks for your input, and I agree with you.

Let me give you all an update...

The videographer got ill after the recital so about 3 months later I get the DVD that I gladly paid for. Get home popped it in the dvd player. "WTF?!?!... I paid $20 for this!" was my exact statement. My wife said it was fine but I was a tad ticked. Must of been taken with a 8 year old camcorder. faces pure white from the state lights, and the video had been compressed down to a 320 resolution I believe because it was majorly pixelated.

Oh well. I think it was a friend of the studio that "Helped" out. My wife likes the studio because the owners are very nice and overall they do well but don't put a disclaimer out there not to video when my damn phone would of done better.


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the ­ flying ­ moose
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Sep 27, 2013 00:28 |  #72

I've taken hundreds of photos at my daughters dance recitals. We are encouraged to do video and photos as long as we are respectful of other guests watching the show. They do have professional video and photos for purchase as well.




  
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Sep 27, 2013 12:22 |  #73

Talley wrote in post #16328061 (external link)
I didn't realize that this got brought back up. Thanks for your input, and I agree with you.

Let me give you all an update...

The videographer got ill after the recital so about 3 months later I get the DVD that I gladly paid for. Get home popped it in the dvd player. "WTF?!?!... I paid $20 for this!" was my exact statement. My wife said it was fine but I was a tad ticked. Must of been taken with a 8 year old camcorder. faces pure white from the state lights, and the video had been compressed down to a 320 resolution I believe because it was majorly pixelated.

Oh well. I think it was a friend of the studio that "Helped" out. My wife likes the studio because the owners are very nice and overall they do well but don't put a disclaimer out there not to video when my damn phone would of done better.

You should take the DVD to their studio and have them watch it. If the quality is that bad, it will give you some bargaining power for next time. Either they allow you to do it yourself or they hire someone who is competent.


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mpix345
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Sep 28, 2013 17:54 |  #74

cpam.pix wrote in post #16326704 (external link)
...
All the work is done before the performances so that the magic of live performances can be preserved.

I think this is a critical point, and it even applies to sports imo. I have obsessed with getting shots of stage and field performances for a few years now. The reality is no one really cares about the photos (except me) and I have a much better time of it if I sit back and enjoy the show or game.

This wisdom has been slow in coming for me, but at least it has finally arrived...


  
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flashpoint99
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Sep 30, 2013 13:13 |  #75

mpix345 wrote in post #16331988 (external link)
I think this is a critical point, and it even applies to sports imo. I have obsessed with getting shots of stage and field performances for a few years now. The reality is no one really cares about the photos (except me) and I have a much better time of it if I sit back and enjoy the show or game.

This wisdom has been slow in coming for me, but at least it has finally arrived...

The children perform the dances many times during the season so there are many times to just sit back and enjoy the show. So because the majority of Dance comps do not allow photography ever! The studio dance recital becomes one of the rare occasions during the dance year that a parent gets the opportunity to shoot pictures of their child. The rest of the year the cameras have to stay home. Taking away that opportunity leaves only one options for parent to get pictures of their child dancing. That option is the over priced,less quality shots from the photog company at the dance comp events. Some charge as much as $35 per 8x10.




  
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Cannot take photos at my daughters recital??? please read statement by dance studio
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Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.