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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 15 May 2013 (Wednesday) 19:58
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EOS 60D or wait for the 70D

 
hollis_f
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Jun 06, 2013 12:47 |  #61

w0m wrote in post #16005618 (external link)
Conjecture at this point; we really don't know for sure what the 70D will bring. As it's only a month off

Conjecture at this point; we really don't know when the 70D will be announced. After all, your source for the July launch is the same source that said it would be announced on April 23rd (and, IIRC, Feb 2012, Sep 2012, Feb 2013)


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w0m
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Jun 07, 2013 01:05 |  #62

hollis_f wrote in post #16005942 (external link)
Conjecture at this point; we really don't know when the 70D will be announced. After all, your source for the July launch is the same source that said it would be announced on April 23rd (and, IIRC, Feb 2012, Sep 2012, Feb 2013)

Touché :)


[6D]

  
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ZIM ­ SOGEN
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Jun 07, 2013 19:00 |  #63
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WAIT for the 70D, from what i see the 60D is just a pro version of the 650D, Same sensor same autofocus, only higher shutter speed, slightly wider exposure, strong body.

I would wait for the 70D as it would have a modern sensor with better noise at high ISO, new AF tech, more fps,strong pro body.

If you cant afford a camera now wait for the 70D, by the time you save the 70D may come down a bit!


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kcbrown
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Jun 07, 2013 21:53 |  #64

ZIM SOGEN wrote in post #16010136 (external link)
WAIT for the 70D, from what i see the 60D is just a pro version of the 650D, Same sensor same autofocus, only higher shutter speed, slightly wider exposure, strong body.

I would wait for the 70D as it would have a modern sensor with better noise at high ISO, new AF tech, more fps,strong pro body.

One would think.

I wouldn't count on the "better noise at high ISO" thing, though. The current 18 megapixel APS-C sensor being used in the latest releases is no better today than it was at its introduction in 2009. While it's hopeful that Canon will release the 70D with a better-performing sensor, it's by no means a sure thing.

We also don't really know what the autofocus will look like. One would expect it to be improved, but in what ways, we can't really say. It may wind up being the same 9 point system that currently exists in the 60D, but with additional control over its behavior or something. There will certainly be some features to make the 70D stand out over the 60D, but they might not be as substantial as you'd think. Canon has a history of releasing what turn out to be minor upgrades (examples: 20D to 30D, 40D to 50D, T4i to T5i). Major upgrades, such as the 5D2 to 5D3, are comparatively rare, in fact, and tend to happen more with the upper echelons of the line than with the lower tiers.


Finally, keep in mind that there's every chance that Canon will release a successor to the 7D as well. If it does, it will have to do something to significantly differentiate it from the 70D, and that implies that the 70D will be limited in certain key areas for which the 7D excels, namely autofocus and speed.

The bottom line is that unless Canon intends to ditch the 7D series entirely, thus making the 7D something of a one-of-a-kind camera, the 70D will remain an XXD camera, with the limitations and characteristics that have been typical of that line to date.

If you cant afford a camera now wait for the 70D, by the time you save the 70D may come down a bit!

Yeah, I wouldn't put down cash that can't be afforded no matter what.

But if the OP can afford the 60D, and needs a camera now, I see no reason for him to wait, really. Everything comes down to whether or not the 60D (or any given camera, really) meets his needs. If it does and he can afford it, he should get it and be done with it. It's that simple.

You can spend your entire life waiting around for the next thing. Nothing's perfect, and I guarantee that the 70D will have some flaws that make it less than perfect. None of these cameras have ever been flawless. Not a single one, and that even includes the 1D series.

There [I]is one thing I can guarantee: the 70D will cost more than the 60D, possibly by quite a bit. At around $650 or so ($640 from CLP, $700 from Amazon), the 60D is some [I]serious camera for the money, and probably one of the best deals going in terms of bang for the buck when you really get right down to it.


"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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palamedes
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Jun 07, 2013 22:23 |  #65

Good post KCBrown




  
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kcbrown
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Jun 07, 2013 23:31 |  #66

palamedes wrote in post #16010529 (external link)
Good post KCBrown

:)


Just trying to keep it real. It's fine to go chasing after gear if that's your thing, but most people want certain specific things out of their gear.

I'll give myself as an example. What I really wanted out of my camera are:

  • Really good, flexible autofocus with rule-of-thirds coverage.
  • Autofocus that can be calibrated per-lens (this feature was an answer to my prayers).
  • Artifact-free high ISO performance that's useful in the low light situations I might typically find myself in.
  • Solid, artifact-free low ISO performance.
  • 100% viewfinder, so I don't have to guess about what's going into the shot.
  • Sufficient burst speed to capture action I might shoot with it (6 FPS is perfectly good for me).
  • A really good fit for my hands.


I started off with the 30D. I found the autofocus on the outer points to be lacking. The 40D looked like a really promising upgrade, so I went for it. I really liked that camera, enough that I was going to stick with it, but it did have frontfocus/backfocus issues with some of my lenses. So I went for the 50D, primarily because it took care of that problem (and also took care of the problem of servo not being terribly good for still shots). That decision was a difficult enough one that I rented a 50D first, and found that it was also slightly more comfortable in my hands. I was going to just stick with the 50D, but then Canon released the 7D, a move I did not expect based on their prior history.

The 7D has everything I want in a camera, save one minor feature: autofocus-linked spot metering. Other than that, it is essentially perfect. It's fast. It has awesome autofocus (spot focusing is particularly useful). It has gloriously film-like high ISO performance. Its low ISO performance is likewise excellent except for banding in the very deep shadows (a blemish on an otherwise flawless camera, and one shared by every Canon camera since, though perhaps not quite to the same degree). It has a beautiful, large, bright, 100% coverage viewfinder. It has resolution to spare. It has cat-like reflexes.

As a result, the 7D is the last camera in the Canon world I'm buying for any reason other than attrition, precisely because it's so incredibly good -- enough that I bought a spare.


Of course, not long after I bought the second 7D, my longtime friend bought me a D600 for Christmas, a truly evil thing to do to someone who had just settled on a camera for the long haul. :lol:

I may wind up upgrading the D600 to its successor if its successor is sufficiently better in some of the ways the D600 is lacking, namely the lack of rule-of-thirds coverage. While I've found that the autofocus points that are there are reasonably close, I'd still like better coverage. Beyond that and the very high ISO banding (ISO 12800 and up, which can be dealt with via Nik DFine if necessary, and which seems to largely disappear upon downsizing), the D600 is likewise perfect for me, and I expect its successor will be that perfection.


So I went chasing gear for a while there, but it was with a purpose. Nothing really met my needs/desires (the 50D came reasonably close) until the 7D came out. But now that the 7D is out, I really don't feel the urge for anything more (while I wouldn't mind spot metering linked to the autofocus point, that is something that isn't even present in the 5D3. It's something I expect to never see on anything other than the 1D series in the Canon line).

If my 7D dies and Canon doesn't have an equivalent replacement at that point in time, I will be most unhappy. It's one of the biggest reasons I bought a second 7D, and why I'm hanging onto it despite the fact that I now have a D600. I can easily see Canon abandoning the 7D line, simply because such closeness to perfection is "too close" to the 1D series, and Canon has always been primarily concerned with keeping their cameras uncompetitive with each other.

"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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ZIM ­ SOGEN
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Jun 13, 2013 15:49 |  #67
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KCbrown yu had me thinking. however wen i said better ISO I didnt mean than better than the650d as the 650d ISO from reviews and user pics I see are already better than the 60d.

If the 70d turns out just a better version of the 70d I would still buy it when the price drops to about $800USD. I want a camera with a strong body to last long.

TAX and DUTY at 38% buying the 650d/750d would be for me waste of money. buyin a camera with a strong body that last and resist damage would be a smarter finacial choice for me.


I am THE GOD of ALL that EXIST! My Greatest Enemy is HUMANITY!!!

  
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ZIM ­ SOGEN
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Jun 13, 2013 16:05 |  #68
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kcbrown I have also looked at the 7d and had my doubts of color saturation based on user pics on tjis site of the 7d compared to the more colorful user pics of the 650d on this same site.

I know the 7d is a great crop sporys camera and the way yu described it sporys performance especially AF I may buy that cam. I am already wilking to save the $1300USD plus $700USD for the efs 15-85lens.

I DO hope the 70d has the aurofocus and performance rumors say it has. good thing a photographer let me hold his 70d. its big though thankfully not as big as i feared. yhe weight was due to the hwavy flash he had for the event the presiding officer arranged for that day at my work.

wat I want in a camera is wat the 7d has. great af syrong body fast shutter speed.

kcbrown the way yu described that camera I want it more. I wanted an enthuisiast view of that camera and yu gave it to me.


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ZIM ­ SOGEN
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Jun 13, 2013 16:10 |  #69
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kcbrown if yu look on the 1dx forum on this site people hav posted that they upgraded from the 7d to the 1dx and that the 1dx is vastly superior to the 7d.

Based on what they posted I dont believe the 7d is close enuf to compete with the 1dx.
Just look on the first 1dx topic and see for yorself


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MissFire
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Jun 13, 2013 16:19 |  #70

my longtime friend bought me a D600 for christmas

Does this mean I'm going to lose my photography tutor, LOL


Lynn
Canon 70D | 10-22 USM | 17-55 f2.8 IS USM | 55-250 IS | 100 f2.8L macro | 430ex III-RT flash | and all my husbands gear!

  
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kcbrown
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Jun 13, 2013 18:48 |  #71

ZIM SOGEN wrote in post #16028329 (external link)
KCbrown yu had me thinking. however wen i said better ISO I didnt mean than better than the650d as the 650d ISO from reviews and user pics I see are already better than the 60d.

The pics you see from the 650D that are better in terms of high ISO than the 60D are JPEG images taken straight from the camera. What really matters, however, is the raw performance of the sensor, i.e. what the raw images from each look like as opposed to how good the cameras' JPEG engines are. With respect to the actual raw performance of the sensor, the 650D is no better at all than the 60D. I know this because I've played with raw files generated by both, taken of the same subject under the same conditions.

The reason the raw performance is generally more important is that the raw performance is determined strictly by what the sensor itself is capable of -- there's no processing in between. All the actual processing is on you. The raw image is the "digital negative", as it were, and the JPEG out of the camera is like the shot generated by a Polaroid camera: already developed.

If the 70d turns out just a better version of the 70d I would still buy it when the price drops to about $800USD. I want a camera with a strong body to last long.

But that can be had now, in the form of the 7D (at least on the used market, where they seem to be going for around $800), although it's been around a while. I don't know what sort of prices they command where you live, however, and that could be a problem.

TAX and DUTY at 38% buying the 650d/750d would be for me waste of money. buyin a camera with a strong body that last and resist damage would be a smarter finacial choice for me.

I agree, although the 650d and its siblings are probably stronger than you think. I'd say the weakest link for them is the shutter, not the body itself. But I certainly agree with you on getting something that's going to last.

ZIM SOGEN wrote in post #16028371 (external link)
kcbrown I have also looked at the 7d and had my doubts of color saturation based on user pics on tjis site of the 7d compared to the more colorful user pics of the 650d on this same site.

Color saturation in the final image is a function of postprocessing, not really the camera as such. The tonal range of the 7D is so close to that of the 40D, 60D, and other crop cameras as to be indistinguishable. That of the 5D3 and other full frame cameras is better, of course, but they collect more light at the sensor, so that's to be expected.

I know the 7d is a great crop sporys camera and the way yu described it sporys performance especially AF I may buy that cam. I am already wilking to save the $1300USD plus $700USD for the efs 15-85lens.

You might also want to consider the new Sigma 17-70. I think you have your heart set on the 15-85, and that's fine as far as it goes, but the 17-70 will cost you about $200 less if the price you can get for it is anything like the price here. There's also the Canon 17-85, which is about the same price as the Sigma 17-70.

I DO hope the 70d has the aurofocus and performance rumors say it has. good thing a photographer let me hold his 70d. its big though thankfully not as big as i feared. yhe weight was due to the hwavy flash he had for the event the presiding officer arranged for that day at my work.

Um, what? The 70D hasn't been released yet! How could a photographer let you hold something that isn't even available yet? Is he a "beta tester"?

wat I want in a camera is wat the 7d has. great af syrong body fast shutter speed.

And it's available now, and is likely to be far more affordable than the upcoming 70D will be if the 70D is going to have the same capabilities. Remember that Canon's been hiking their prices on everything.

ZIM SOGEN wrote in post #16028383 (external link)
kcbrown if yu look on the 1dx forum on this site people hav posted that they upgraded from the 7d to the 1dx and that the 1dx is vastly superior to the 7d.

I should hope so! For $7k, the 1DX had better be vastly superior!

Based on what they posted I dont believe the 7d is close enuf to compete with the 1dx.
Just look on the first 1dx topic and see for yorself

The problem here is that you're falling into the trap I described: that of someone who chases gear for its own sake. What matters isn't whether or not the 1DX performs a lot better than the 7D. What matters is whether or not the 7D performs well enough to meet your needs. If it does, then anything beyond that is overkill, nice as it might be.

Remember, too, that nothing comes for free. The 7D brings with it a set of capabilities, but the capabilities of the total package are defined not just by the camera, but also by the lens that is used with it. The 7D with a really good lens will outperform a 1DX with a poor lens in a number of respects, and the 7D package will almost certainly cost less than the 1DX package ($6k, the price difference between the 7D and the 1DX, buys you a lot of lens).


"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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kcbrown
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Jun 13, 2013 18:54 |  #72

MissFire wrote in post #16028400 (external link)
Does this mean I'm going to lose my photography tutor, LOL

LOL!

Nope. I'm still using the 7D as well, and intend to continue to do so. It's just way too good of a camera to give up, and I've got a lot of Canon lenses.

And in any case, the fundamentals remain the same, so hopefully I'll remain just as good at helping people with their Canon gear as before.

:)


"There are some things that money can't buy, but they aren't Ls and aren't worth having" -- Shooter-boy
Canon: 2 x 7D, Sigma 17-50 f/2.8 OS, 55-250 IS, Sigma 8-16, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, other assorted primes, and a 430EX.
Nikon: D750, D600, 24-85 VR, 50 f/1.8G, 85 f/1.8G, Tamron 24-70 VC, Tamron 70-300 VC.

  
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ZIM ­ SOGEN
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Jun 14, 2013 09:33 |  #73
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kcbrown I meant the 7d when I spoke about the camera a photographer let me hold, sometimes you need to see that people make typos!


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ZIM ­ SOGEN
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Jun 14, 2013 09:46 |  #74
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As for camera prices, I know the prices the camers out now are going for on the stores i want to buy from, I dont buy cameras locally as the service in my country is pathetic and its cheaper to buy and ship and pay the VAT (Value Added Tax) and DUTY than to buy it from a local store, then the local stores dont have all the accessories, local businesses when it come to purchasing quality electronics in very PATHETIC HERE!

The Canon 7D on both amazon.com and B&H are going for $1300USD, all the rumors of the 70D say it will cost $1199USD when released!

The 650D and the 700D are going for similar prices that for me are too close to chose the 650D over the 700D, even though they both practically the same camera I would chose the 700D for simple feature that would make the camera a little more convenient to use for me, I wont get into that as you know the differences already!

When the time comes and I which ever camera I want I will post pic here converting the pics to something as close to raw quality as possible, with full color contrast sharpness etc.

I wont buy the sigma lenses because they are cheaper, I already looked at the standard zoom sigma lenses for crop frame and i know the Canon efs 15-85mm is better and i am wiling to pay the price at $699US in addition to the camera I want.


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ZIM ­ SOGEN
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Jun 14, 2013 09:52 |  #75
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For my first Camera its either I buy the best at what i think are reasonable prices or nothing, in my experience every time i buy something just because its cheaper I always am disappointedn when I could have gotten better for reasonably more.

If I buy cheaper its because I strongle believe its as good as I like it as the alternitive is too expensive, I wont by any zoom less than the 15-85, its a quality zoom sharp images and a wide length lower than all other standard zooms for crop frame, I want to do landscapes, people, portraits and other closeand large items all on one lens.

I was advised by a photographer enthusiast living in Tobago who is a US citizen by Birth to buy at least one prime lens, I agree, I just havnt decided yet which lens that will be!


I am THE GOD of ALL that EXIST! My Greatest Enemy is HUMANITY!!!

  
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EOS 60D or wait for the 70D
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