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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 14 Jun 2013 (Friday) 20:24
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Sigma 35 vs Canon 35L - QC Issues

 
Charlie
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Jun 14, 2013 23:58 |  #16

jrbdmb wrote in post #16032575 (external link)
BTW, according to Photozone, the Sigma 35mm vignettes 2.05 EV wide open, the 35L vignettes 2.41 EV wide open. Lenstip also agrees that light falloff of the 35L (70%) is worse than the Sigma 35 (66%). I don't know why your pictures don't confirm this, but I would call both test results pretty reliable.

It has to do with overall vignetting. Canon's is feathered more, and sigma's is harder towards the edges.


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carpenter
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Jun 15, 2013 00:16 |  #17

What exactly are the shoes that you are in? 2 weeks ago you said you'd never give up your 35L so I'm not sure why you even bought the Sigma. Let alone 3 copies?

My 35L is gone this week after testing out my Sig 35 pretty extensively. There is definitely some vignetting, but 0 focus issues after an in camera adjustment (dock just got here today from BH) It's just flat out a better lens, period.

I must be the Sigma exception then because I have had 2 copies of the 70-200 2.8 OS, 2 copies of the 150-500 all since been sold) and now the 35 and not one has had an issue.

I take any review from anyone with extreme bias with a grain of salt whether that is Canon, Nikon, Sigma etc etc fanboyism. If anyone REALLY wants to know how the lens works. Buy it and test it out as there certainly could be issues with it (as there could with any lens) Amazon gives you 30 days to return it for free with $0 return provided you find the lens to not work properly or up to your standards.


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Jun 15, 2013 01:37 |  #18

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smythie
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Jun 15, 2013 01:46 |  #19

I've have 18-50, 150 macro in EF mount and 150 OS macro and 120-400 in F mount and none of those have given me any focussing issues. Guess I was just lucky. I'll find out in a week when my F mount S35 turns up


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cdang
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Jun 15, 2013 02:49 |  #20

Your S35 came already ? That means the 200L is here. I'll be busy shooting with that first ;p




  
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JeffreyG
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Jun 15, 2013 07:18 |  #21

kin2son wrote in post #16032331 (external link)
For pixel peeper, yea sure :rolleyes:

And no vignette requires 3 stops push, at least not for the Sigma 35 in question (max is 1 stop).

If you hate vignette that much, shoot @ f1.8 then, big deal...

Oh and here's a fact - if you're going to shoot wide open, 99.99% of people don't really care about corners.

Incorrect. As a matter of fact a 1 stop vignette would be considered superlative performance on a lens like this. I'm not bashing the Sigma 35 (in fact I have no experience with it) but the lens does have fairly typical (and heavy) vignette.

If you hate vignette that much, shoot @ f1.8 then, big deal...

Oh and here's a fact - if you're going to shoot wide open, 99.99% of people don't really care about corners.



I don't care about sharpness in the corners when I shoot wide open, but I do care about noise. Noise will be especially visible in the blurred background.

I'm not sure why you are defending vignette. Vignette is a fact of life with fast lenses in general, and it is not a desireable thing:

1) Sure, sometimes vignette is good for a photo....but not if you want to crop to a different aspect ratio, or don't want vignette etc. Better to add it in post than try to get rid of it.
2) Sure, you can correct vignette. But doing so adds noise. And what you call 'pixel-peeping' I call making large prints.


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TheLensGuy
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Jun 15, 2013 08:37 |  #22
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cdang wrote in post #16032772 (external link)
Your S35 came already ? That means the 200L is here. I'll be busy shooting with that first ;p

The 200L is coming on Monday. I did not want to deal with too many lenses at the same time so that I could focus on one!:)

kin2son wrote in post #16032275 (external link)
Here's my experience.

Straight out the box, it clearly front focused on my 5D3, so I MA'ed it (+5).

It seems to do the trick for MFD -> my normal shooting distance (don't ask me how many feet as I have no idea).

Now for longer distance -> infinity, it clearly back focused @ f1.4 when I test it. BUT I never ever shoot far subject at large aperture anyway. Why? Because my main subject is my daughter and long distance to infinity on 35mm is so wide that my daughter is too small within the frame anyway. Also by f2 you probably won't notice it anymore. Therefore it doesn't bother me at all.

Consider getting the dock? It's only $60 and that's still way cheaper than 35L.

Vignette? Pft that's a one click fix in Lightroom. Why would anyone care about that really?

To sum up I'm very happy with the lens under REAL LIFE SHOOTING. I've learnt not to shoot charts and based my judgement in situation that really matters.

What are you talking about? I'd rather have a lens that is soft around the corners than vignettes as much as Sigma does. I am not going to sit and fix 250 pictures I took on a Saturday in post processing to remove vignetting. I always shoot both Raw and Jpeg and pick the favorite shots (usually 1 or 2 out of 100) and spend time in post with those. Some Jpegs go to Smugmug straight out of the box for the family to see, and some other good shots make it to PP for getting printed.

How is the dock going to solve this problem? You guys need to understand the types of "focus adjustments" that can be done on a lens and a camera. The dock will only do the standard MA as a firmware upgrade in the lens instead of the camera. The only way to improve this, which I have gone through before with my previous body and another Sigma lens, is to send the camera in to Sigma with the lens, which for a 5d mark 3 costs a lot more than $10 unlike someone suggested, more like $80 for insurance + $40 for shipping, each way, total of $240 as I would never ship the camera and the lens without insurance both ways. Even sending the camera in, which by the way can totally screw your warranty up should anything goes wrong, does not fix the issue 100%, but gets close. The lens still misses focus (missing focus is not same as not focusing correctly) a lot more than Canon does.

What about that squeaky focus issue? That is also fixed by the dock? What if tomorrow there is 5d mark 4 that has an entirely different focus algorithm and mechanism, then what will happen to this Sigma? Well I guess we shouldn't go there.

The lens is a lot sharper than 35L. The bokeh is close, I don't think it'd be easy to tell the bokeh difference. In the corners, sigma destroys Canon, but then it vignettes so much that all of that sharpness is meaningless. I can see the vignettting even on darker backgrounds.

I also already own 35L, so the "cheaper" argument goes only so far, because if I liked S35, I would have to sell my 35L and the difference would be pretty close. Not to mention, cost was not a factor to try out S35, but it was the sharpness.

Lastly, I'm surprised not many people brought up the focus speed. It focuses considerably slower than 35L in AI Servo tracking objects (someone running sideways).




  
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Charlie
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Jun 15, 2013 08:47 |  #23

The dock can MA at different distances

It's really impressive on paper.


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kin2son
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Jun 15, 2013 09:00 |  #24
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TheLensGuy wrote in post #16033130 (external link)
I always shoot both Raw and Jpeg and pick the favorite shots (usually 1 or 2 out of 100) and spend time in post with those. Some Jpegs go to Smugmug straight out of the box for the family to see, and some other good shots make it to PP for getting printed.

Um ic.....So you think that your family members are really bothered by the vignetting huh?(NOT!) And the vignetting is so bad and unworkable for you that you can't process 1-2 out of a 100?

Mate that's just all in your own head....

How is the dock going to solve this problem? You guys need to understand the types of "focus adjustments" that can be done on a lens and a camera. The dock will only do the standard MA as a firmware upgrade in the lens instead of the camera.

Did you even read my real life experience? And as Charlie said, you clearly have no idea what the dock is capable of...

Let me just say that no lens is perfect in this world, learn to work around and get the best out of it ;)


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TheLensGuy
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Jun 15, 2013 09:02 |  #25
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jrbdmb wrote in post #16032575 (external link)
Or ... you spend the $10 or so, send the lens to Sigma, have them adjust it, and have a great lens for far less than the 35L. Alternately get the USB dock and calibrate it yourself.

I agree that you should not have to do this, but I don't get why so many people are adamant about not sending the lens to Sigma for calibration (or now doing it themselves). In the case of the 35mm it seems well worth it. I recently bought the 30mm "A" crop lens, which front focused only at longer distances. After a one week trip to Sigma, the focus is now excellent.

BTW, according to Photozone, the Sigma 35mm vignettes 2.05 EV wide open, the 35L vignettes 2.41 EV wide open. Lenstip also agrees that light falloff of the 35L (70%) is worse than the Sigma 35 (66%). I don't know why your pictures don't confirm this, but I would call both test results pretty reliable.

All 3 lenses had the same amount of vignetting consistently. To me this is too much. None of the lenses I have or have owned in the past has had this much vignetting, and we are talking about 24L, 35L, 50L, 85L along with 24-70 II and 70-200 II at their weakest points.




  
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TheLensGuy
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Jun 15, 2013 09:04 |  #26
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kin2son wrote in post #16033174 (external link)
Um ic.....So you think that your family members are really bothered by the vignetting huh?(NOT!) And the vignetting is so bad and unworkable for you that you can't process 1-2 out of a 100?

Mate that's just all in your own head....

Did you even read my real life experience? And as Charlie said, you clearly have no idea what the dock is capable of...

Let me just say that no lens is perfect in this world, learn to work around it and get the best out of it ;)

No I read what you said, but why compromise? In that case, my family members will never see the sharpness difference between the two lenses and I cannot either unless I pixel peep 100% crop pictures.




  
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kin2son
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Jun 15, 2013 09:10 |  #27
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TheLensGuy wrote in post #16033188 (external link)
No I read what you said, but why compromise? In that case, my family members will never see the sharpness difference between the two lenses and I cannot either unless I pixel peep 100% crop pictures.

So if neither you nor your family member can see the difference except pixel peeping @ 100%, why keep chasing IQ and sharpness that is insignificant in real life viewing?

I bet they don't care about corner sharpness either at wide aperture, or should I say do they actually understand what wide aperture means? :p

Moreover, do you really think they care about the bokeh difference between the 200f2 and 70-200II @ f2.8? No!


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goldboughtrue
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Jun 15, 2013 09:15 |  #28
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I got my SIgma 35 here in Korea a couple months ago. Like others, I did some tests and tried to MA and then MA again, but then said to myself, "forget it". Just shoot and see what happens. I've been very happy with it! It's sharp as all get out. I was doing tests, but when I used it in real life it works just like it should.

I returned MA back to zero and no problems.


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TheLensGuy
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Jun 15, 2013 09:15 |  #29
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kin2son wrote in post #16033204 (external link)
So if neither you nor your family member can see the difference except pixel peeping @ 100%, why keep chasing IQ and sharpness that means buying in real life viewing?

Moreover, do you really think they care about the bokeh difference between the 200f2 and 70-200II @ f2.8? No!

I shoot these pictures for myself, not for the family:) They wouldnt be able to tell the difference in web between iphone 4 and 5d mark 3 with 70-200 IS II....




  
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Charlie
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Jun 15, 2013 09:18 |  #30

TheLensGuy wrote in post #16033181 (external link)
All 3 lenses had the same amount of vignetting consistently. To me this is too much. None of the lenses I have or have owned in the past has had this much vignetting, and we are talking about 24L, 35L, 50L, 85L along with 24-70 II and 70-200 II at their weakest points.

the the 24L vignettes more than the sigma..... you probably didnt notice because you werent looking for something wrong with that lens....

the vignetting issue is petty at best.. realistic shooting, people dont shoot white walls!

on top of that, if you want to do apples to apples, the vignetting between 35L vs S35 is NOT considerably different. If you fix both in post to match each other, there will barely be any difference with normal photos.

on the other hand, you've made a few threads on sharpness already, and the s35 blows out the 35L in that regard, so not seeing why a mountain is made of the vignetting issue, and a molehill out of the sharpness differences.


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Sigma 35 vs Canon 35L - QC Issues
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