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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 26 Jan 2013 (Saturday) 10:20
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A New Bare Bulb Flash Arrives

 
Whortleberry
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Jun 20, 2013 10:15 |  #1561

G-Darc wrote in post #16047178 (external link)
Where might you get one of those cables? I didn't notice it on Cheetah Stand's website just the one to two cable.

Thanks

I believe that although there are samples around, the main shipment is in the container Edward is expecting in July. The one with all the CL360s in which so many folks are hankering after. As tetrode says, though, there may just be some available already. There's an easy way to find out if you can get one yet:

CheetahStand Headquarter:
4425 Mcewen Road
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214.734.1198
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001 972 234 8008 from outside the USA (which I see you aren't but some of us are.)


Phil ǁ Kershaw Soho Reflex: 4¼" Ross Xpres, 6½" Aldis, Super XX/ABC Pyro in 24 DDS, HP3/Meritol Metol in RFH, Johnson 'Scales' brand flash powder. Kodak Duo Six-20/Verichrome Pan. Other odd bits over the decades, simply to get the job done - not merely to polish and brag about cos I'm too mean to buy the polish!
FlickR (external link) ◄► "The Other Yongnuo User Guide v4.12" by Clive Bolton (external link) ◄► UK Railway Photographs 1906-79 (external link)

  
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Whortleberry
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Jun 20, 2013 11:00 |  #1562

swldstn wrote in post #16047793 (external link)
Own both a CP-E4 that I had for my Canon flashes and just got a CL-180 with the 4500 battery pack (also with the Canon cable).

OK, the 4500 is 4500 mAh and according to the doc runs at 11.1V

My CP-E4 has 8 x 2000 mAh Eneloops that are probably 4 x 2 configuration so the operating voltage is maybe 6V = 1.5V x 4 and the power would be (4 x 1.5V) x (2 x 2000mAh) and would be 24000 Wh. Or maybe at a different voltage? Anyone know.

So the CL-L4500 is 11.1 x 4500 = 49950 Wh
The CP-E4 then is about have the power. Ok.

I think you will find that the Canon CP-E4 is a straight run of 8 AA cells in series rather than the 4x2 configuration you mention. This 8 cell daisy-chain is the widely used arrangement (Yongnuo, JJC, iShoot, Uwink, etc., etc). As far as I'm aware, but please don't take this as an absolute, only the Pixel TD-38x series uses two banks of 4 AAs. Different internal circuitry hence it's an independant new design and not a slavish copy. The big advantage to users is that with the Pixel design, if one of the 8 cells fails then only 1 bank of 4 is out of action and you still have the other bank of 4 cells to operate the pack, albeit marginally slower. With the 8-in-series arrangement, if one cell fails then so does the whole pack.

In either case, the output voltage as demanded by the external power port circuitry in the flash unit is in the 300-330v region - I've never seen any published figures for specific values.

If you take a set of XYZ batteries and connect them in SERIES (ie +ve to -ve terminal in a chain), the voltage is the sum of the voltages of each cell. Hence 8 AA rechargeables (of 1.2v nominal) in series would be 9.6v (8x1.2v). The CAPACITY would remain the same. So your 8 Eneloops would give you 9.6v but still only 2000mAh capacity. The alternative, connected in PARALLEL, wouldn't increase the VOLTAGE but you would then get accumulated capacity - you'd get 1.2v output but 16,000mAh capacity. (Circuits with batteries/accumulators in parallel aren't all that common in consumer level appliances these days.) You don't get both figures increasing at the same time. Brief overview of series and parallel circuits here (external link) if you're interested - but it's only a brief overview and not definitive.

So, going back to your particular instances:

  • Your CP-E4 power source (the 8 AA batteries) will give you initially 9.6 volts but still 2000mAh capacity.
  • Your Godox or Cheetah will give you initially the 11.1 volts (3 Lithium cells of 3.7v each, in series) and the 4500mAh capacity as stated.
These values are then input into the voltage-multiplying circuitry within each individual power pack to raise the voltage to the required level. The storage capacity remains the same in either case. This also explains why, to cope with the differing demands of various Metz units, the Mx lead ONLY works with specified units. As Canon, Nikon and Sony have been in the flash business a much shorter time than Metz, their demands are unified across each maker's range of units (where there even are external power ports, of course). Canon requirements may be different to Nikon requirements may be different to Sony requirements - there are variations within the Metz range which require further modification of the final voltage depending on the individual model. This drives the need for (eg) a Quantum CM4 with it's little box in the cable to power a Metz 45CL4 or a Quantum CM54 cable with a different controller box if running a Metz 54MZ4i. However, any (eg) Canon flash which has an external power port should run with the Cx cable without further modification. Likewise Nikon, likewise Sony.

Although your calculations are all based on a false premise, the relationship between the values remains right in that the Cheetah L4500 has very roughly twice the capacity of a CP-E4. Highly dubious calculations but the right comparitive answers!

Phil ǁ Kershaw Soho Reflex: 4¼" Ross Xpres, 6½" Aldis, Super XX/ABC Pyro in 24 DDS, HP3/Meritol Metol in RFH, Johnson 'Scales' brand flash powder. Kodak Duo Six-20/Verichrome Pan. Other odd bits over the decades, simply to get the job done - not merely to polish and brag about cos I'm too mean to buy the polish!
FlickR (external link) ◄► "The Other Yongnuo User Guide v4.12" by Clive Bolton (external link) ◄► UK Railway Photographs 1906-79 (external link)

  
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silvrbullet
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Jun 20, 2013 11:29 |  #1563

nicksan wrote in post #16047919 (external link)
All I know is that with my 600EX-RT at full power, my trigger finger cannot keep up with the recycle time of the Cheetah pack. Something I wouldn't even dream of with my 8 x AA pack. This is going to be fantastic at weddings!

That is awesome! I did a test last night, and my 580EXII could only keep up at 1/16th power (continuous burst mode) on my 5DIII. Are you worried about the flash over heating?


Sony A7RII | Zeiss Batis 2.8/18 | Fuji X-T1 | 23 F/1.4

  
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nicksan
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Jun 20, 2013 12:13 |  #1564

silvrbullet wrote in post #16048568 (external link)
That is awesome! I did a test last night, and my 580EXII could only keep up at 1/16th power (continuous burst mode) on my 5DIII. Are you worried about the flash over heating?

I don't normally shoot that way (full power and continuous shooting) so I am not worried. I do occasionally fire off a few in a row by pressing on the shutter quickly. I was just testing to see what I can get out of the Cheetah pack b/c I have heard great things about it using it with a Speedlight. I wasn't disappointed. Again, my finger couldn't keep up with the recycle time at full power. So this is MUCH better than the 8 x AA pack (CP-E4 clone) that I have been using.

The battery pack alone is worth buying!




  
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BigIronCruiser
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Jun 20, 2013 15:08 |  #1565

butterfly2937 wrote in post #16048285 (external link)
With the 360s are most of you using a light meter and if so how are you triggering your 360s to meter? Or are most of you just taking a few shots and adjusting power based on what you see?

My preference is light meters because they're fast, accurate, and eliminate the guesswork. A meter also allows lights to be setup without finding someone to stand in front of the camera while your chimp.




  
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ramin.ma
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Jun 20, 2013 15:49 as a reply to  @ BigIronCruiser's post |  #1566

hello again, is there any body here who is using the 180 or the 360 with a Fuji X100?




  
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BigIronCruiser
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Jun 20, 2013 16:32 |  #1567

ramin.ma wrote in post #16049296 (external link)
hello again, is any body here who is using the 180 or the 360 with a Fuji X100?

I don't have an X100, but it should work fine since the Cheetah (a) doesn't care about your leaf shutter, and (b) simply gets triggered via the hotshoe. You can always try it risk-free per Cheetah's return policy (external link). I'm considering an X100S, so I would definitely be interested in hearing about your experience with the X100/CL-xxx combination.




  
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silvrbullet
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Jun 20, 2013 16:42 |  #1568

ramin.ma wrote in post #16049296 (external link)
hello again, is any body here who is using the 180 or the 360 with a Fuji X100?

Not the same camera, but I use the CL-180 with my XE-1. I have no issues with it.


Sony A7RII | Zeiss Batis 2.8/18 | Fuji X-T1 | 23 F/1.4

  
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ramin.ma
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Jun 20, 2013 17:27 |  #1569

BigIronCruiser wrote in post #16049372 (external link)
I don't have an X100, but it should work fine since the Cheetah (a) doesn't care about your leaf shutter, and (b) simply gets triggered via the hotshoe. You can always try it risk-free per Cheetah's return policy (external link). I'm considering an X100S, so I would definitely be interested in hearing about your experience with the X100/CL-xxx combination.

Ok it looks like no one here is using a leaf shutters.

I use a Sunpak 120J which has a flash duration of 1/600 at full power (180 & 360 both have 1/300) when I use my Skyport to trigger the 120J, to be able to use a 1/500 shutter speed on X100 I can only fire my flash at half power because of the time delay of the radio signal: the flash fires when the shutter is almost about to close hence the end part of the flash is not recorded because the shutter is already closed, whereas if mounted on the camera, or connected with a cable, flash fires instantly the moment all the leaves are fully open, this way you get perfect synchronization. At lower power levels with radio synch though I can easily go up to 1/1000 because flash duration is so short that a time delay will not be noticed.

For more info on leaf shutters reacting to flash see this page and watch the clip: http://www.khousen.com …0s%20Shutter%20​Speed.html (external link)

I asked Godox the flash duration of 180 at lower powers (1/2, 1/4, 1/8 and 1/16..) but she didn't know it, she only told me what is in the specs. I think I have to get my hands on one of these and test it for my self.

what I would love to see is a flash duration chart like this one here: http://www.philharbord​photography.co.uk/stro​beam_dl250.html#durati​on (external link)




  
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butterfly2937
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Jun 20, 2013 20:38 |  #1570

BigIronCruiser wrote in post #16049206 (external link)
My preference is light meters because they're fast, accurate, and eliminate the guesswork. A meter also allows lights to be setup without finding someone to stand in front of the camera while your chimp.

I agree I was just wondering what light meter and trigger combo people are using with these flashes.


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BigIronCruiser
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Jun 20, 2013 20:48 |  #1571

ramin.ma wrote in post #16049506 (external link)
Ok it looks like no one here is using a leaf shutters.

I use a Sunpak 120J which has a flash duration of 1/600 at full power (180 & 360 both have 1/300) when I use my Skyport to trigger the 120J, to be able to use a 1/500 shutter speed on X100 I can only fire my flash at half power because of the time delay of the radio signal: the flash fires when the shutter is almost about to close hence the end part of the flash is not recorded because the shutter is already closed, whereas if mounted on the camera, or connected with a cable, flash fires instantly the moment all the leaves are fully open, this way you get perfect synchronization. At lower power levels with radio synch though I can easily go up to 1/1000 because flash duration is so short that a time delay will not be noticed.

For more info on leaf shutters reacting to flash see this page and watch the clip: http://www.khousen.com …0s%20Shutter%20​Speed.html (external link)

I asked Godox the flash duration of 180 at lower powers (1/2, 1/4, 1/8 and 1/16..) but she didn't know it, she only told me what is in the specs. I think I have to get my hands on one of these and test it for my self.

what I would love to see is a flash duration chart like this one here: http://www.philharbord​photography.co.uk/stro​beam_dl250.html#durati​on (external link)

Call Edward at Cheetah, phone 1-214-734-1198. He's a super nice guy, and he will be more than happy to assist.




  
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BigIronCruiser
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Jun 20, 2013 21:51 |  #1572

butterfly2937 wrote in post #16049952 (external link)
I agree I was just wondering what light meter and trigger combo people are using with these flashes.

I use a Sekonic L-508 meter, but any light meter with flash measurement capability should work.

I normally use the Cheetah triggers that come with their lights, but I've also used PocketWizard MiniTT1's and FlexTT5's. When using the PW's to trigger the lights, I still use the Cheetah remote to make power adjustments. The Cheetah remote has been rock-solid so far. My only complaint, and it's a small one, is that it's easy to inadvertently switch zones on the remote because the selector switch doesn't have solid detents. The same is true, however, with those tiny wheels on a PW AC-3 Zone Controller.




  
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Chad ­ D
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Jun 20, 2013 23:15 |  #1573

was Curious what Edward or any others thought of this mount idea for a 60 softlighter II
any chance those threads cant hold just the flash weight up ?
nice and easy just took one of my studs and screwed in the umbrella mount threads :)

have not tested it in my bogen metal brackets yet for clearance ? but cant see why it wont work had these out that I use my speedlights :)

since that thread is designed to hold a umbrella up ? figured it would be strong enough to hold the flash itself up and since there is no real leverage on the flash like there would be with a umbrella on it ?
seems to be a solid setup and since that is a 60 softlighter on there :) way less stress I would think with just the flash vs a umbrella hanging off it ?

been debating about getting one those cheetah speed pro brackets he has that mount the flash horiz but this method now is pretty nice and easy and free :) and easy

anyone think it wont be strong enough ? seems like it is ?

and buy the way love this flash

edited to say Edward sent me a PM said would not be a good idea as it could cause head damage :(

to bad so simple and easy :)
guess its time to build a L bracket or buy one :)


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Robsphoto
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Jun 21, 2013 00:06 |  #1574

butterfly2937 wrote in post #16049952 (external link)
I agree I was just wondering what light meter and trigger combo people are using with these flashes.

Same setup as bi Iron except the 358 with the control for the TT1 and TT5 installed.


Happy Shooting:lol:

  
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BigIronCruiser
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Jun 21, 2013 00:39 |  #1575

Chad D wrote in post #16050390 (external link)
was Curious what Edward or any others thought of this mount idea for a 60 softlighter II
any chance those threads cant hold just the flash weight up ?
nice and easy just took one of my studs and screwed in the umbrella mount threads :)

have not tested it in my bogen metal brackets yet for clearance ? but cant see why it wont work had these out that I use my speedlights :)

since that thread is designed to hold a umbrella up ? figured it would be strong enough to hold the flash itself up and since there is no real leverage on the flash like there would be with a umbrella on it ?
seems to be a solid setup and since that is a 60 softlighter on there :) way less stress I would think with just the flash vs a umbrella hanging off it ?

been debating about getting one those cheetah speed pro brackets he has that mount the flash horiz but this method now is pretty nice and easy and free :) and easy

anyone think it wont be strong enough ? seems like it is ?

and buy the way love this flash

Nice idea. My primary concern for this type of installation is that the flash-head would probably be destroyed (too much torque) if the lightstand fell over.




  
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A New Bare Bulb Flash Arrives
FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
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