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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 26 Jun 2013 (Wednesday) 07:33
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Does ETTL-II work in Bounce Mode?

 
Roxie2401
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Jun 26, 2013 07:33 |  #1

This is driving me nuts, and I'm not that familiar with using a flash - yet.

I think I understand how ETTL-II on a 580EX II works when the flash is aimed straight ahead but does it work when the flash is used for bounce (with or without the little white card extended)? Or, is this more or less trial and error in getting correct exposure when using bounce?

And, sort or related, am I correct in thinking that the "zoom" function with the flash matching the zoom lens setting only works with the flash head straight ahead, too?

Sorry for the basic question - I'm traveling and only packed the camera manual - didn't bring the flash manual and have never used bounce before.




  
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apersson850
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Jun 26, 2013 07:37 |  #2

The zoom function is mainly useful when the flash is aimed straight ahead. You can adjust it manually when bouncing, if you feel that you are helped by that.

In theory, E-TTL II works just the same regardless of where the flash is aimed. It's the camera doing the metering, not the flash. However, a lot of testing done by certain forum members has shown that this isn't always true in reality. Be prepared to use flash exposure compensation. How much is, as you say, something you'll have to learn for different setups and subjects.


Anders

  
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Talley
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Jun 26, 2013 08:07 |  #3

Yes it does. You have to use Flash Exposure Compensation to dial in the amount of light you want. I also will typically on high ceilings or walls far away will zoom the flash to 70+mm and if i'm in a very tightly closed area I will back it off and sometimes pull out the wide thingy.


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Roxie2401
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Jun 26, 2013 09:23 |  #4

Talley wrote in post #16066120 (external link)
Yes it does. You have to use Flash Exposure Compensation to dial in the amount of light you want. I also will typically on high ceilings or walls far away will zoom the flash to 70+mm and if i'm in a very tightly closed area I will back it off and sometimes pull out the wide thingy.


That's what I was thinking - most of my bounce shots were underexposed so FEC +, right?

And I'm guessing by forcing the zoom for a "longer" lens - it pushes out the light more toward the high ceiling........


And to both of you - thanks so much for the quick replies.




  
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apersson850
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Jun 26, 2013 11:47 as a reply to  @ Roxie2401's post |  #5

If bouncing provides dark images on a regular basis, then check that the flash actually was able to provide enough light. You typically loose a couple of stops worth due to bouncing, and then the light has to travel a longer distance to reach the target as well.


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Roxie2401
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Jun 26, 2013 11:55 |  #6

apersson850 wrote in post #16066764 (external link)
If bouncing provides dark images on a regular basis, then check that the flash actually was able to provide enough light. You typically loose a couple of stops worth due to bouncing, and then the light has to travel a longer distance to reach the target as well.


This will sound silly, but how do you suggest that I "check that the flash actually was able to provide enough light?"

And, I noticed on another thread, is the flash supposed to send out a pre-flash to measure the light and if so, will I be able to see the pre-flash?




  
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drvnbysound
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Jun 26, 2013 11:58 |  #7

When bouncing you are generally adding much more light to the overall scene as the wall/ceiling is becoming a light source; realize that the in-camera meter (depending on your metering mode) may be exposing for the entirety or majority of the scene. That said, the subject may appear darker than you like... the camera is just trying to make everything average to 18% gray.


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Tommy1957
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Jun 26, 2013 14:49 |  #8

I am pretty sure most EX flashes default to their 50mm zoom setting when NOT pointed straight ahead. I have a 430 EX II, and 2 550 EX units. They both do that. The fix: manually zoom to a longer length when bouncing.

One simple trick to get around high ceilings and distant walls is to use scotch tape to affix a white 3x5 index card to the diffuser panel on the flash. Set flash head to point straight up. Set zoom to widest setting. Pull out diffuser panel and tape card to it so head, panel and card are all vertical and facing subject. It works for me.




  
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Roxie2401
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Jun 26, 2013 16:29 as a reply to  @ Tommy1957's post |  #9

If I'm fully understanding how the ETTL works with a 5D is that in full manual mode, I am controlling the shutter speed (within the sync ability) and the aperture for depth of field and the flash "should" supply the correct amount of light (again within the limits of the power of the flash unit).

Did I get all that correct in that I should not make an attempt to use the camera's meter needle for exposure by matching shutter and lens opening?

(I finally found an on-line copy of the 580EX II manual and will spend some time with it - finally.)




  
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gonzogolf
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Jun 26, 2013 16:32 |  #10

Roxie2401 wrote in post #16066785 (external link)
This will sound silly, but how do you suggest that I "check that the flash actually was able to provide enough light?"

And, I noticed on another thread, is the flash supposed to send out a pre-flash to measure the light and if so, will I be able to see the pre-flash?

Usually the preflash will be so close to the main flash that you cant distinguish one from another. If you use the flash exposure lock function you can see it.

To your question above. If you take a shot and its dark, dialing in exposure compensation should make it brighter, if not you are at the max power of your flash and all the exposure compensation in the world wont make it brighter.




  
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Tommy1957
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Jun 26, 2013 16:46 |  #11

Roxie2401 wrote in post #16067586 (external link)
If I'm fully understanding how the ETTL works with a 5D is that in full manual mode, I am controlling the shutter speed (within the sync ability) and the aperture for depth of field and the flash "should" supply the correct amount of light (again within the limits of the power of the flash unit).

Did I get all that correct in that I should not make an attempt to use the camera's meter needle for exposure by matching shutter and lens opening?

(I finally found an on-line copy of the 580EX II manual and will spend some time with it - finally.)

Centering the meter will match flash and ambient light levels. Color (WB) may still be an issue.




  
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apersson850
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Jun 27, 2013 14:44 |  #12

Roxie2401 wrote in post #16066785 (external link)
This will sound silly, but how do you suggest that I "check that the flash actually was able to provide enough light?"

By looking at the lamp, of course. The flash has one LED to tell you it's ready to fire, and another which turns on for a few seconds after the shot, if the flash power used was sufficient, according to the metering done by the E-TTL system.
If you don't want to take your eye of the viewfinder, then you can use FEL. That will tell you in the viewfinder if flash power will be sufficient, prior to taking the picture. This is possible since FEL (as already stated above) separates flash metering from flash firing for exposure.

When using M mode together with flash, something which is a good idea, by the way, you must dial in an exposure that's more or less underexposure. If you expose the subject correctly already with ambient light, there's no room to add any flash (unless the flash illuminate just some minor part of the subject, usually a part that's in a shadow). If you overexpose the ambient then of course adding flash will just make it worse. That's why the camera normally lowers the shutter speed a bit, when using Av mode together with flash, compared to without flash. To give headroom for adding some flash light.
Thus centering the meter, assuggested by Tommy, will not match ambient and flash. Setting one stop below center does, however, at least on a more "standard" subject, where both ambient and flash will be able to illuminate the part of the subject you see from the camera's point of view.


Anders

  
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jonneymendoza
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Jun 27, 2013 14:46 |  #13

apersson850 wrote in post #16066062 (external link)
The zoom function is mainly useful when the flash is aimed straight ahead. You can adjust it manually when bouncing, if you feel that you are helped by that.

In theory, E-TTL II works just the same regardless of where the flash is aimed. It's the camera doing the metering, not the flash. However, a lot of testing done by certain forum members has shown that this isn't always true in reality. Be prepared to use flash exposure compensation. How much is, as you say, something you'll have to learn for different setups and subjects.

Best to shoot manual flash.


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apersson850
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Jun 27, 2013 14:49 as a reply to  @ jonneymendoza's post |  #14

In many cases, yes. Especially if you are taking multiple pictures at the same location. Manual flash power will then make sure the flash outputs a consistent power each time.


Anders

  
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jonneymendoza
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Jun 27, 2013 14:51 |  #15

apersson850 wrote in post #16070449 (external link)
In many cases, yes. Especially if you are taking multiple pictures at the same location. Manual flash power will then make sure the flash outputs a consistent power each time.

ETTL is only good for dynamic subjects that changes distance, ambiant light etc but for everything else, Manual is the way to go.


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Does ETTL-II work in Bounce Mode?
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