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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 01 Jul 2013 (Monday) 13:31
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5DII > 7D Temporarily?

 
ejenner
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Jul 01, 2013 20:09 as a reply to  @ post 16082073 |  #16

I just got a 7D to complement my 5DII and in your situation, I'd do it. 7D is so much of a better camera for general photography IMO. It's not that much worse for landscapes at low ISO than the 5DII with a 17-40 either.

If I had to choose one camera it would be the 5DII just because I still do landscapes and those are the only things I print. But for general stuff and kids I find I reach more for the 7D.


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lewdogg
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Jul 01, 2013 20:38 |  #17

It seems like this discussion is making a BIG assumption that all these shots are being made in suitable light. Sure, if you're outside during the day the 7D will be the winner for the "willy nilly" shots because of its superior AF system. However, what about when lighting is poor? Doesn't the 5D2 get some credit for being able to get cleaner shots at high ISOs? Just because you can focus on your subject faster with the 7D doesn't mean the shot will be better in all situations, IMO. And sure, if the shot is out of focus, it's not going to be a keeper anyway. But it's the principle that nobody seems to have mentioned the higher ISO performance of the 5D2 because its AF system gets bashed on all the time.

Overall, each person needs to determine which types of shooting they will be doing and which body will benefit that the most. But as the thread is asking about purchasing both, then sure, why not? If you have the cash now and you don't want to wait for anything better, go for a used 7D to compliment the FF 5D2.


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Pearlallica
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Jul 01, 2013 20:53 |  #18

i know what you mean by the 5D2 woes.

The 5D3 is superb at focusing. No question about it. It can save the day under challenging circumstances.

Personally, I would just wait for the 5D3 when the timing/money is right. I had the 7D and I really liked the focus system, but coming from full frame there was just something about the image quality of the 7D that I seriously dis-liked. Maybe it was its pixel packed sensor, the lack of dynamic range. I couldn't quite place my finger on it. It had gave me "Wow!" moments, and it gave me very sour moments. It never lived fully up to my expectations.

I recently went on a camping trip and decided only to bring the 5D2 and a 16-35. I had so much fun with it. For the most part the images were fairly controlled (no running kids). But they turned out fantastic and shooting with such a simple system just made the experience more enjoyable. Bottom line - I wouldn't feel too much like you're missing out.


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amfoto1
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Jul 01, 2013 23:10 |  #19

For close to four years I've had and used a pair of 7Ds alongside a 5DII. The crop cameras serve well for sports/action, which is about 85-90% of my shooting. The 5DII is great for the landscapes, architecture, still life, portraits, macro... about 10-15% of my shooting. With the two formats available, I haven't had to jump on the 5DIII bandwagon yet, but probably will eventually. But even when I do, I'll keep using crop cameras alongside and they will still likely handle the bulk of my work.

If I could only have one, it would be the crop camera. Today's can make very presentable landscape & architecture shots up to 16x24" prints, but beyond that I'd prefer to work with the FF camera. There's more to it than just AF performance and frame rate. A crop camera also allows me to work with smaller, lighter lenses handheld... where to get the same "reach" with the FF, I'd have to break out the "big guns" and a tripod or monopod to put them on. Sure, I could do it if need be, but the croppers are working really well for me. I'll be interested to see what Canon comes up with next... between the 70D looking more like a 7D in many respects (AF system) and getting a whole new sensor. In fact, you might want to wait and see what the revues have to say about the 70D, instead of buying nearly 4 year old tech in the 7D. Of course, the 70D (and no doubt the 7D Mark II that will likely follow soon), will go for a premium price for a while and 7D or 60D will be much more affordable.

Yes, 5DII is better for high ISO/low light work. It's good for about one stop higher ISO than 7D. Plus the 5DII's AF system is still able to focus in a bit lower light, after 7D's has given up. I think Canon's rating of the two camera's AF for low light is a bit conservative for the FF camera and maybe just a little optimistic for the cropper. They rate both around -0.5 EV, but I find the 5DII is able to keep working a little lower light, though it does slow and hunt more.

Speaking of 60D, if considering the 7D, you also might want to look at 60D. Though it looks the same, it's AF system is better suited to action/sports than the 5DII's, better at tracking movement and all nine points are the "better" dual axis/cross type. Maybe by scaling back a little bit on the cropper you could afford to keep both formats. I'm sure there will be some blow out prices on 60D while they are clearing back stock, not to mention some deals on lightly used ones when people run out to upgrade.


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hollis_f
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Jul 02, 2013 03:47 |  #20

Charlie wrote in post #16081359 (external link)
there are still ways to capture kids, and relatively easy, even on a 5D2.

Why jump through hoops with a compromise? Buy the right tool for the job.


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MNUplander
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Jul 02, 2013 08:38 |  #21

Well, I've done two things - first, I spent a good deal of time last night really digging into MFA for my 24-70II for the first time (never needed it before). I settled on +4 and I'm actually very pleased - I was surprised how much that little adjustment helped. But, I suppose it makes sense because I was always "in focus" before, just never critically sharp.

Best of all, the adjustment seems to be consistent throughout all focus distances and at both ends of the zoom. I feel a little funny about having to MFA a $2k+ lens and I find it interesting it didn't need it on my neighbors 5DIII, but I've done all the reading about the mfg tolerances of the body and lens matching up to conspire against us at times so I guess I'm OK with it.

The other thing I did was to buy a used 7D on the forums. Although it was done under the guise of temporary testing, now that I have success with MFA for my 5DII I may have to play my cards to let me keep it for good. Then I'll have the best of both worlds without the major cash outlay of the 5DIII. I sure would love to have that camera but bodies depreciate so quickly and maybe this will tide me over for a bit longer.

Thanks for all your input folks.


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Charlie
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Jul 02, 2013 09:17 |  #22

hollis_f wrote in post #16083115 (external link)
Why jump through hoops with a compromise? Buy the right tool for the job.

So dropping to a smaller format and losing some sharpness and high iso ability isnt a compromise? This whole thread is about compromise, otherwise TS would have got a 5D3 already.


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Jul 02, 2013 09:52 |  #23

MNUplander wrote in post #16083633 (external link)
The other thing I did was to buy a used 7D on the forums.

I think that's a great idea to have both.


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gasrocks
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Jul 02, 2013 16:30 |  #24

In a way, having a 1x and a 1.6x body does kinda double the lenses you already own.


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ejenner
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Jul 02, 2013 20:19 as a reply to  @ gasrocks's post |  #25

Honestly I agree with most of the sentiments here, but once I got over the fact that my $850 camera is better for a whole lot of shooting than my $2400 camera (what I personally paid for them), I pick up the 7D a lot more than I though I would when I first got it.

One thing I like about the crop is that the spread of AF points covers a lot more of the frame even though it is physically the same spread as the 5DII.


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Jul 02, 2013 20:31 |  #26

I personally am not a fan of the 7d, but I can see where it is more desirable than a 5DII (with its crippled outer focus points and lack of fps). The people who say it can be done with a 5DII are right: it just can't be done well or consistently. And using a high burst rate is not necessarily spray and pray or "video" (which is laughable). Anyone who has used 6,7,8 or more FPS knows this (assuming actually used this function, lol).


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Jul 07, 2013 17:20 as a reply to  @ twoshadows's post |  #27

My 5DII has never let me down but I use mostly manual Zeiss lens.....




  
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ejenner
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Jul 08, 2013 00:17 |  #28

twoshadows wrote in post #16085881 (external link)
And using a high burst rate is not necessarily spray and pray or "video" (which is laughable). Anyone who has used 6,7,8 or more FPS knows this (assuming actually used this function, lol).

Agreed. And it's not just the burst rate, but the fact the camera fires much more quickly once you press the shutter button and the viewfinder is not blacked out for so long.

Using the 5DII for anything action-y after a 7D makes me feel like I'm waiting for the camera - inside I'm willing the camera to actually take the shot.


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twoshadows
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Jul 08, 2013 00:28 |  #29

ejenner wrote in post #16100673 (external link)
Agreed. And it's not just the burst rate, but the fact the camera fires much more quickly once you press the shutter button and the viewfinder is not blacked out for so long.

Using the 5DII for anything action-y after a 7D makes me feel like I'm waiting for the camera - inside I'm willing the camera to actually take the shot.

I believe you're talking about shutter lag, something I'm big on. All I can say is if you like the (lack of) shutter lag on the 7d, don't try a 1 series body, lol. :D


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Jul 08, 2013 06:20 |  #30

Having had both, here are my thoughts if you still are considering a switch:

- the 7d, with its higher pixel density, requires good optics to get very sharp 100% crops, so lenses that may work great on the 5d2 may not be the sharpest on the 7d
- the 5d2 has just about 1 stop better ISO performance
- the 7d AF is much better regardless of what others say, it has AF performance and modes that are more versatile and faster than the 5d2, the only way to use the 5d in motion/action is to use its center point, and even then you might want the expansion points turned on
- the 7d has a better fps rate, as well as being able to handle 24 bursted raw images before slowing down
- obviously if you keep your lenses, then your dof control is going to diminish with the 7d

In my opinion, you lose 3 very important items if you move laterally to the 7d (because I don't consider it a downgrade):

- lose a stop of iso performance
- images may not be as sharp at 100% view
- loss of dof control

To combat this in order to realize other gains, you may need to:
- learn better post processing techniques, better at noise reduction
- expose to the right more than on the ff
- change your lenses perhaps to efs or other known sharp glass if the 100% views aren't making you happy


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