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Thread started 10 Jul 2013 (Wednesday) 18:58
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5D3 to 6D: How much will the keeper rate go down?

 
gabebalazs
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Jul 11, 2013 06:42 |  #16

apersson850 wrote in post #16109981 (external link)
I don't get this center point only thing. I want the freedom of having at least some artistic opinion about the images I shoot, so I don't want to have the main subject in the center all the time.
Yes, you can crop, but then you throw away a good deal of that resolution you paid for.

Guess I'm spoiled (or is it blessed?) with so many years of color slide shooting. Get it right out of the camera, or you blew it, sort of.

You're absolutely right. I actually do use the other AF points on my 6D too. And they work much better than I expected. I shot an entire low-light symphony orchestra concert a couple months ago using pretty much the top 3 AF points and they worked great (with 24-105L, which isn't even a fast lens).


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John ­ from ­ PA
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Jul 11, 2013 06:54 |  #17

I don't use many of the features

Therein lies the problem.




  
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gfspencer
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Jul 11, 2013 08:00 |  #18

apersson850 wrote in post #16109981 (external link)
I don't get this center point only thing. I want the freedom of having at least some artistic opinion about the images I shoot, so I don't want to have the main subject in the center all the time.
Yes, you can crop, but then you throw away a good deal of that resolution you paid for.

Guess I'm spoiled (or is it blessed?) with so many years of color slide shooting. Get it right out of the camera, or you blew it, sort of.

With a center point focus you aren't giving up any artistic opinion and you don't have to have the main subject in the center all the time. You simply focus and recompose. That's what we did in "the old days" before auto focus. Talk about artistic opinion . . . ;)


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bobbyz
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Jul 11, 2013 08:37 |  #19

apersson850 wrote in post #16110161 (external link)
I was thinking about when tracking moving subjects, using Servo AF. Then the focus/recompose thing doesn't work at all, and I can't for my life understand why you would want to limit yourself to using only the center point in such cases? It's in these cases automatic focusing is really helpful, but not so much if it spoils you compositions all the time.

You know even with 1 series most sports guys used center AF point. Why coz center AF point was/is much better than other points. Now we have cameras where outer AF points are just as good as center points. It wasn't the case. I did some side by side testing of 1dmk2 and 5dmk3 with 300mm f2.8 IS and 5dmk3 AF points were so much better to track in lower light.

On side note I have seen even pros using 1dx still using center point. I guess old habits die hard.


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fotocrack
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Jul 11, 2013 20:12 |  #20

Quote:
I don't use many of the features

John from PA wrote in post #16110336 (external link)
Therein lies the problem.

Not using all the features does not mean I am not enjoying the ones I am using.
The AF, low light performance, the dual card and awesome AI SERVO make me really love this camera. My keeper rate is also higher than any camera I have owned before.


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panicatnabisco
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Jul 11, 2013 22:35 |  #21

fotocrack wrote in post #16109138 (external link)
I am thinking about selling my 5D3 and get a 6D because I don't use many of the features and always shoot with the center point AF (single of the 9 pts cluster). I also I like the smaller size of the 6D, the wifi sync to the smartphone.
The only thing stopping me right now and the single point AF on the 6D.
Will my rate of keepers go down? I would say right now with the 5D3 I am around %90.
I mainly shoot portraits, family events, some kids soccer and swimming so nothing like the pros.
I could also get an extra lens like the Tamron SP 70-200mm F/2.8 Di VC USD with the savings.
Do you think I should keep the 5D3 or am I going to get similar results with 6D?

Keeper rate is the same, I actually like the colors better on the 6D better

Seems like your shooting stlye is better suited for a 6D (I love the wifi). You can use the money you save for the things that really matter, like lenses ;)


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gabebalazs
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Jul 11, 2013 22:44 |  #22

I just came home from tennis, where I took my 6D and Sigma 70-200 2.8 OS lens. I was taking some test shots while my fiancé and her brother were playing. It was after 8 p.m. so not the best light.
I only used AF Servo. I tested both the center point and the top 3 points. I was surprised how well the pictures came out, even with the non-center points. And the players were not just standing around, they had a pretty intense game going on :)

I probably had a keeper rate of about 90-95%, shooting at f/2.8. I believe that if I had been using a 5DIII, the keeper rate would have been even higher, no doubt.
However, again I was pleasantly surprised to find what I've known all along, namely that the 6D's AF is not as bad as so many people claim. I think that bad reputation comes mainly from certain people for whom there is no middle ground when it comes to results: if something performs "only" at 90% rate compared to the best, then it must be a useless piece of junk. :)
Anyway, I was happy with my test results, maybe next time I'll take my 7D and compare.


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fotocrack
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Jul 11, 2013 23:31 |  #23

gabebalazs wrote in post #16112649 (external link)
I just came home from tennis, where I took my 6D and Sigma 70-200 2.8 OS lens. I was taking some test shots while my fiancé and her brother were playing. It was after 8 p.m. so not the best light.
I only used AF Servo. I tested both the center point and the top 3 points. I was surprised how well the pictures came out, even with the non-center points. And the players were not just standing around, they had a pretty intense game going on :)

I probably had a keeper rate of about 90-95%, shooting at f/2.8. I believe that if I had been using a 5DIII, the keeper rate would have been even higher, no doubt.
However, again I was pleasantly surprised to find what I've known all along, namely that the 6D's AF is not as bad as so many people claim. I think that bad reputation comes mainly from certain people for whom there is no middle ground when it comes to results: if something performs "only" at 90% rate compared to the best, then it must be a useless piece of junk. :)
Anyway, I was happy with my test results, maybe next time I'll take my 7D and compare.

Thank you so much!!
This is really helpful since you are using the setup I am planning on getting.
I am going to get the camera and see if I live with the AF system.


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mike_foyle
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Jul 12, 2013 04:19 |  #24

hollis_f wrote in post #16110211 (external link)
I'll bet that's a load of fun shooting soccer ;)

apersson850 wrote in post #16110161 (external link)
Sorry, my post wasn't complete. Yes, for things cast in concrete or similar, that works fine. But then you don't really need autofocus at all. I have many images taken with manual focus lenses/cameras of such stuff. No problem.

I was thinking about when tracking moving subjects, using Servo AF. Then the focus/recompose thing doesn't work at all, and I can't for my life understand why you would want to limit yourself to using only the center point in such cases? It's in these cases automatic focusing is really helpful, but not so much if it spoils you compositions all the time.

I understand that. But the post stated "I don't understand the centre focus thing" and also suggested that he was under the false premise that he would be limited to only having the subject in the centre of his frame and then having to crop in post. I was suggesting that that doesn't have to be the case!

The 6D will never be capable of what the 5Diii or 7D are capable of when it comes to tracking moving subjects of course. It's nice as a low light camera for stuff which isn't particularly fast moving or action packed though. I've kept a 7D for anything more demanding :D


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ElectronGuru
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Jul 12, 2013 11:11 |  #25

gabebalazs wrote in post #16112649 (external link)
However, again I was pleasantly surprised to find what I've known all along, namely that the 6D's AF is not as bad as so many people claim.

The typical pattern in technology dissapointment goes something like 1) cool new widget gets announced, 2) folks get excited to see what it can do and crank up their expectations, and 3) once they get it in there hands, and it doesn't meet those expectations, they are disappointed.

This is a new phenomena, disappointment about what should have been. The first iPad mini should have had a retina display (because the older iPad just got one). The new iPhone should be 50/month (because the new Samsung is). The new 6D should have mega focus system (because the 5D3 does).

Had the 6D been released before the 5D3, it would be seen as a step forward, not back. These measurements are relative, more or less. The difference (usually on paper) between what was released and and what could have been released creates a feeling of loss. Loss = pain and pain = anger. The worst thing a well meaning company can do is show people what they can't have.


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thirtyfivefifty
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Jul 17, 2013 02:18 |  #26

I say don't do it. I'm using a 5D Mark II, and all I'm relying on is center point, but it turns out my pictures have "centered" tendencies. What can I do? I can't stray from the middle quick enough and I don't have clusters to help me out. That's not creative at all.


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moltengold
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Jul 17, 2013 06:39 |  #27

it seems that you want the 6D :)


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bobbyz
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Jul 17, 2013 08:14 |  #28

Got my 6d the day before. Haven't shot any action but the outer points so far seems much better than 5d/5dmk2. I have used 5dmk3 and Mk3's AF does come handy even when shooting non action things like moving kids.


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moltengold
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Jul 17, 2013 08:28 |  #29

By the way
I have the same feeling :)
the 6D light weight and the colors from this camera are great
i dont care about the speed
now im shooting family photos indoors


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Charlie
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Jul 17, 2013 09:51 |  #30

gabebalazs wrote in post #16110324 (external link)
You're absolutely right. I actually do use the other AF points on my 6D too. And they work much better than I expected. I shot an entire low-light symphony orchestra concert a couple months ago using pretty much the top 3 AF points and they worked great (with 24-105L, which isn't even a fast lens).

thanks for this post. I was shooting last night and tried this. My AF/joystick discomfort is somewhat negated with this in combination with orientation linked AF Points.

Haven't quite grown into this camera yet, the lack of joystick still irks me a bit.


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