Not a new topic, but...

My son got married this weekend. Naturally, I was interested in the photographers. There were two. The secondary was a young woman who wore a nice dress. She was shooting a T2i with a variety of middle-quality lenses. I have no agrument about the T2i because I firmly believe that the photographer brings 99% to the table. Although she did take one shot of me with a bright window in the background and told me that she would be able to fix it up in Photoshop. Okay, okay, she was the secondary and could be cut a little slack due to inexperience. But there was no way she was going to fix a 3 stop underexposure in post-processing. I didn't pursue the point because I wasn't looking for an argument.

The primary photographer was wearing jeans and a button-down shirt. He also chimped after every shot. But to his credit, he wasn't praying and spraying. I couldn't tell what camera he was using and didn't want to engage him in a conversation that might put him on the defensive and have a possible negative impact on my son and daughter-in-law's photos. He had a flash mounted to the camera. But I don't believe I ever saw it go off. The lighting was not as bad as I've seen, but not great either. I got some grab shots with An Olympus XZ-1 at 400 ISO, f/1.8 and no flash. Both photographers had filters on their lenses. Not one to jump to conclusions, I'm waiting to see what kind of shots they produce before I comment further.

I talked to the secondary later in the day about her companion's dress code. I mentioned that I'd heard that photographers don't try to stick out and that black-on-black is always safe, which is what I commonly wear on an event shoot. She said that was so passe and nobody made a big deal about shooting weddings in jeans. Nevertheless, a few guests, knowing I am a photographer, did ask me about his dress and the flash not going off.

So what's the consensus? Am I out of touch? Was I being an old stuff-shirt?

Well... without seeing the quality of work that came from either shooter, I think any sort of judgment would be not only premature, but downright unprofessional, in and of itself. I think the primary's choice of attire may have been a worse sin than the second-shooter carrying a T2i (I shoot with a T1i, but always wear a tie and have heard nothing but enthusiastic praise, from the brides and grooms, in regards to the quality of the work I produce). I think the notion that a photographer has to shoot with a 5D Mark II or better with nothing but Canon L-series lenses to get professional quality photos is ignorant-at-best (understand, that is not an insult directed at you, but at the equipment "thumpers" that are somehow convinced that this is, indeed, so). However, I think if it were my son, or daughter saying their vows with the primary photographer running around in jeans, I think I would have a few words to say to him/her. That speaks volumes of the primary's professionalism, but not necessarily their skills. In this case, I could only hope that their skill sets FAR outweigh their professionalism and decision making! I, for one, would be VERY interested in hearing how the photos turned out (from BOTH shooters)!

710 Studio wrote in post #16123520
However, I think if it were my son, or daughter saying their vows with the primary photographer running around in jeans, I think I would have a few words to say to him/her. That speaks volumes of the primary's professionalism, but not necessarily their skills.

At the last wedding I went to the photographer wore shorts and a t-shirt. No shoes. He made some pretty good pictures though. The definition of "professionalism" is changing.

joedlh wrote in post #16123469
My son got married this weekend.

Congratulations!

joedlh wrote in post #16123469
Naturally, I was interested in the photographers.

Naturally...

joedlh wrote in post #16123469
There were two. The secondary was a young woman who wore a nice dress. She was shooting a T2i with a variety of middle-quality lenses. I have no agrument about the T2i because I firmly believe that the photographer brings 99% to the table.

So why bring it up?

joedlh wrote in post #16123469
Although she did take one shot of me with a bright window in the background and told me that she would be able to fix it up in Photoshop. Okay, okay, she was the secondary and could be cut a little slack due to inexperience. But there was no way she was going to fix a 3 stop underexposure in post-processing. I didn't pursue the point because I wasn't looking for an argument.

How about you didn't pursue the point because you were a guest and not the photographers that were hired to shoot the wedding? Have you seen the photo? Was it a formal or more of a candid shot? I'll be the first to tell you that I sometimes shoot perfectly craptastic photos at weddings and can also tell you I don't have a 100% keeper rate.

joedlh wrote in post #16123469
The primary photographer was wearing jeans and a button-down shirt. He also chimped after every shot. But to his credit, he wasn't praying and spraying.

Not my style to wear jeans, but I've seen it before. Again, chimping after every shot, praying and spraying...it all depends. What's most important is the final product. As a fellow photographer, it's difficult to refrain from being judgmental though. I get people coming up to me all the time at weddings asking all kinds of questions while I am trying to do my job.

joedlh wrote in post #16123469
I couldn't tell what camera he was using and didn't want to engage him in a conversation that might put him on the defensive and have a possible negative impact on my son and daughter-in-law's photos. He had a flash mounted to the camera. But I don't believe I ever saw it go off.

Were you THAT obsessed with the guy that you were seeing if the flash was going off? Sheesh...

I may have my speedlite on my camera for an extended period of time without using it as well. That doesn't mean it's there for show only.

joedlh wrote in post #16123469
The lighting was not as bad as I've seen, but not great either. I got some grab shots with An Olympus XZ-1 at 400 ISO, f/1.8 and no flash. Both photographers had filters on their lenses. Not one to jump to conclusions, I'm waiting to see what kind of shots they produce before I comment further.

I have filters on all my lenses. Your point is? Not jump to conclusions? Sounds like you already have the moment you saw the two photographers.

joedlh wrote in post #16123469
I talked to the secondary later in the day about her companion's dress code. I mentioned that I'd heard that photographers don't try to stick out and that black-on-black is always safe, which is what I commonly wear on an event shoot. She said that was so passe and nobody made a big deal about shooting weddings in jeans. Nevertheless, a few guests, knowing I am a photographer, did ask me about his dress and the flash not going off.

So what's the consensus? Am I out of touch? Was I being an old stuff-shirt?

Again, I don't necessarily agree with the jeans part and since you are the Father of the groom, I believe it was within your right to ask such a question. However I believe that you were being very judgmental and your post comes off that way despite the fact that you insist that you weren't.

Reserve judgment until you see the final product. Even then, if your son and his wife are happy with the photos, I'd just leave it at that.

GoWolfpack wrote in post #16124501
At the last wedding I went to the photographer wore shorts and a t-shirt. No shoes. He made some pretty good pictures though. The definition of "professionalism" is changing.

My personal opinion is, when my daughters get married (which won't be for awhile - I told them that they aren't allowed to date until they're married) and the photographer showed up wearing shorts, jeans, or other casual wear - as long as the photos turn out to be incredible quality, I would be more willing to "forgive" the poor choice of attire. I probably wouldn't be happy about it, at the time of the wedding, but if the pictures turn out wonderfully, they would be great regardless what the shooter wore. My standards for when I shoot - I always wear a dark shirt, a tie, long pants (usually either black or tan), black socks, and black shoes. I would feel terrible showing up dressed in jeans or shorts. But that goes back to your VERY true statement - professionalism is changing!

I didn't mean my post to be as negative as it sounded to you. I was concerned that the photos would be good. So perhaps I did sound overly critical. The thing about the flash is that I was hoping that he was using a camera that would give low noise high ISO shots. It's not that I was scrutinizing every shot that he took. I did see the backlit shot of me on the LCD. It wasn't a keeper. But it wasn't her only shot. I have enough shots of my own that are destined for the dustbin not to judge someone on the basis of one shot.

joedlh wrote in post #16123469
My son got married this weekend. Naturally, I was interested in the photographers. There were two. The secondary was a young woman who wore a nice dress. She was shooting a T2i with a variety of middle-quality lenses. I have no agrument about the T2i because I firmly believe that the photographer brings 99% to the table. Although she did take one shot of me with a bright window in the background and told me that she would be able to fix it up in Photoshop. Okay, okay, she was the secondary and could be cut a little slack due to inexperience. But there was no way she was going to fix a 3 stop underexposure in post-processing. I didn't pursue the point because I wasn't looking for an argument.

The primary photographer was wearing jeans and a button-down shirt. He also chimped after every shot. But to his credit, he wasn't praying and spraying. I couldn't tell what camera he was using and didn't want to engage him in a conversation that might put him on the defensive and have a possible negative impact on my son and daughter-in-law's photos. He had a flash mounted to the camera. But I don't believe I ever saw it go off. The lighting was not as bad as I've seen, but not great either. I got some grab shots with An Olympus XZ-1 at 400 ISO, f/1.8 and no flash. Both photographers had filters on their lenses. Not one to jump to conclusions, I'm waiting to see what kind of shots they produce before I comment further.

I talked to the secondary later in the day about her companion's dress code. I mentioned that I'd heard that photographers don't try to stick out and that black-on-black is always safe, which is what I commonly wear on an event shoot. She said that was so passe and nobody made a big deal about shooting weddings in jeans. Nevertheless, a few guests, knowing I am a photographer, did ask me about his dress and the flash not going off.

So what's the consensus? Am I out of touch? Was I being an old stuff-shirt?

I chimp. I shoot into bright highlights all the time. I often have my flash on and rarely consider using it. I wear red jeans and a bone coloured polo shirt when I shoot weddings. Go figure.

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #16124837
I chimp. I shoot into bright highlights all the time. I often have my flash on and rarely consider using it. I wear red jeans and a bone coloured polo shirt when I shoot weddings. Go figure.

Peter not everyone is standing and shooting in the ocean like you *LOL*

Love you branding by the way

scorpio_e wrote in post #16124917
Peter not everyone is standing and shooting in the ocean like you *LOL*

I won't stand in it for too long (sharks).

For the bridal party shoot part of my sister's wedding last week (in England) I wore shorts and my "Trust me I'm a Jedi" t-shirt. The look on the venue's coordinator's face was priceless

It was a pain though having to wear a shirt, tie etc for the rest of the time though (I had to match my Dad, Brother, the groomsmen and the ushers. It won't be happening again any time soon.

scorpio_e wrote in post #16124917
Love you branding by the way

Cheers

Don't take this the wrong way but sounds like you should have hired and paid for the wedding photographer. This way they could have meet all of your criteria

Why would you even bring up the dress code? Plus it a bit late to do anything. If it is a beach and very casual wedding then I do not see a problem wearing jeans for a second shooter.

GoWolfpack wrote in post #16124501
At the last wedding I went to the photographer wore shorts and a t-shirt. No shoes. He made some pretty good pictures though. The definition of "professionalism" is changing.

It ain't changing that much. Unless it was a beach wedding thats beyond marginal.

gonzogolf wrote in post #16124968
It ain't changing that much. Unless it was a beach wedding thats beyond marginal.

Totally agree here. There's no need for the photographer to wear a tux unless it's required - happened to me once - but I see nothing wrong with looking as professional as you can. It only HELPS our trade and can do much to elevate the public's opinion of our craft.

A shirt and tie or dark dress or slacks won't make your pictures better. This is an important event though, very sacred and formal to many and I feel we should treat it with the respect and dignity it deserves. We should not dress DOWN to the casual extreme.

Don't get me wrong - I love casual Fridays but I think folks have taken it too far now with 24 x 7. T's, shorts, and jeans are fine on the beach and a few other places but I would have been a bit put off, as a matter of respect, if the photog had done both my daughter's weddings in that fashion.

I've seen a lot of complaints on POTN over the years from some wedding photogs about how "I don't get the respect I feel I should." Dressing the part is part of that equation in addition to skill, experience and the ability to deal with people. Right or wrong, many people still treat you by how you dress at an event like a wedding.

sapearl wrote in post #16125106
I've seen a lot of complaints on POTN over the years from some wedding photogs about how "I don't get the respect I feel I should." Dressing the part is part of that equation in addition to skill, experience and the ability to deal with people. Right or wrong, many people still treat you by how you dress at an event like a wedding.

You have to respect the event. Just because you are getting paid to shoot doesn't mean you should give yourself permission to go totally casual. My rule of thumb is "don't ever be the worst dressed guy in the room."

gonzogolf wrote in post #16125147
You have to respect the event. Just because you are getting paid to shoot doesn't mean you should give yourself permission to go totally casual. My rule of thumb is "don't ever be the worst dressed guy in the room."

Absolutely Gonzo - why should we be respected if we'e not making the effort to respect their family, friends and event.

gonzogolf wrote in post #16125147
You have to respect the event. Just because you are getting paid to shoot doesn't mean you should give yourself permission to go totally casual. My rule of thumb is "don't ever be the worst dressed guy in the room."

sapearl wrote in post #16125187
Absolutely Gonzo - why should we be respected if we'e not making the effort to respect their family, friends and event.

Well said, both of you. As well as the comment about how professionalism is changing. Indeed.