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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 06 Aug 2013 (Tuesday) 08:01
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I'm getting screwed (Wedding/Payment)

 
PretendFriend
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Aug 14, 2013 06:25 |  #91

jwhite65 wrote in post #16200870 (external link)
Sued for what? Let's assume the original photog who hired the OP is less than honorable:
As I've already pointed out, he could have easily copied the cards onto his computer with the intent of never paying the OP. Since there's no contract, there is no proof how much he was supposed to pay the OP or if he was even supposed to pay him at all. He could now claim the OP agreed to shoot the wedding for free just to get the experience of shooting weddings. His word against the OP. If their only contact was verbal (no email, text messages, etc.) there's no proof either way.

I should have clarified, I have every e-mail saved with my dialogue with the Tog, including the agreed payment and my admission that I wasn't experienced.




  
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mike_311
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Aug 14, 2013 06:52 |  #92

PretendFriend wrote in post #16206663 (external link)
I should have clarified, I have every e-mail saved with my dialogue with the Tog, including the agreed payment and my admission that I wasn't experienced.

that's two thing in your favor if you decide to pursue this in court, documented discussion and he has no proof he paid you since he didn't.

I'd contact the original Photog and tell him that you wish to be paid for your services because you performed them.

be stern and say that you 'd like to end this relationship and would like to work with him in the future but he needs to pay you. if he doesn't you will end the partnership and wish let a judge decide if he pays.

If he truly is getting screwed and cant afford to pay you can decide whether to let him off the hook in the hopes of a future business relationship but you also need to make it know that you won't be a pushover. If he is getting put over by the B/G he probably has no motivation to move this along because in reality he never lost anything, he pushed the loss to you, so you need to push it back.


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wixxer13
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Aug 14, 2013 08:40 as a reply to  @ mike_311's post |  #93

Why don't you choose about 5 or 10 nice photos, edit them so they look finished with a big watermark and email them to the B/G. Tell them if they like what they see, they can deal directly with you. In this case, since the original photographer seems to have given up on the clients, you might make a little more out of this.


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Sens0r
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Aug 14, 2013 08:48 as a reply to  @ wixxer13's post |  #94

I understand how frustrated you might be given what has happened.

Stay focused, you have the photos, if the original photographer has given up on the whole thing, then you shot the wedding, you produced stunning images, edit and finish them to the best of your ability and have them ready for the B/G at the expected time. MAKE SURE THE B/G UNDERSTAND WHAT HAS HAPPENED, and this will give you a GREAT REPUTATION when they tell everyone this story..

THE BRIDE AND GROOM STILL WANT THEIR PHOTOS.. DON'T BE DISTRACTED

Think of it as an opportunity, the couple WILL PAY YOU for the photos if you stand your ground against the other guy.

Be easy to the B/G but firm with the original photographer.

You have the photos, whoever wants them has to pay for them. PERIOD


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mileslong24
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Aug 14, 2013 09:17 as a reply to  @ mike_311's post |  #95

Sounds to me like this guy is a joke and extremely unprofessional. He backed out of a commitment and substituted someone he knew had little to no experience for something as important as a wedding. Then to claim he can't pay you the small sum you agreed upon is crazy. Whether he was payed or not......we're not talking a lot of money here.




  
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jwhite65
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Aug 14, 2013 12:09 |  #96

I still think the original photographer downloaded the photos. He never said the B/G didn't want the photos, just that they wanted a full refund.
Since emails exist detailing the your working relationship with the photographer, you may not be able to claim copyright infringement. I think your best course of action at this point is to demand payment from the photographer for services rendered. If he refuses, file suit in small claims court and let a judge decide.
You should still talk to the B/G and see if the photographer is telling you the truth. They may very well need to appear as witnesses in court and you will want to get their story before the photographer works out a deal with them.


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rjharris
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Aug 14, 2013 14:24 |  #97

jwhite65 wrote in post #16207502 (external link)
I still think the original photographer downloaded the photos. He never said the B/G didn't want the photos, just that they wanted a full refund.
Since emails exist detailing the your working relationship with the photographer, you may not be able to claim copyright infringement. I think your best course of action at this point is to demand payment from the photographer for services rendered. If he refuses, file suit in small claims court and let a judge decide.
You should still talk to the B/G and see if the photographer is telling you the truth. They may very well need to appear as witnesses in court and you will want to get their story before the photographer works out a deal with them.


You should still be able claim copyright infringement. If your e-mail doesn't mention anything about him getting the copyrights to the photos you took or there was mention of payment and you never received payment. I understand that you don't have a contract but your e-mails will probably serve as documentation as to what was supposed to happen that didn't happen.




  
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KirkS518
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Aug 14, 2013 14:33 |  #98

When they get back from their honeymoon, contact the B&G, and nonchalantly ask them how they liked the photos. Make like you know nothing about any issues (cause there may not be any). By doing this, you'll find out if A) they've seen any of the photos (meaning the tog swiped them), B) if there were any issues for real, and C) whether or not the tog got paid.

If they haven't seen the photos, act surprised, tell them it's strange, and that you have all the photos. Ask why the tog hasn't shown them anything, etc. At that point you can offer them the photos in exchange for payment.

If they have seen, or gotten their photos, you have proof that the tog was paid, and that he has no excuse not to pay you.

In any case, I don't think I'd work for that tog again, in any capacity, at any fee.


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rjharris
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Aug 14, 2013 14:38 |  #99

^^^^^ If steroids are illegal for athletes, should PS be illegal for models? ^^^^

Absolutely love this.




  
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Bakewell
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Aug 16, 2013 16:00 |  #100
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Hogloff wrote in post #16204238 (external link)
All this speculation on what's going on is just speculation.

What? ???


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Mag-1981
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Aug 16, 2013 17:23 |  #101

I know nothing about paid photography, but I can see many talking about not doing anything without the contract and some even suggesting the job should be paid for in advance. Isn't that then, that the photographer who got the OP to shoot the wedding, should have had a contract with the B&G and possibly already got paid for it anyway? I am only guessing, but just using common sense, if that was not the case, then the main photog would have been in the same position if he did the job himself. Would any professional allow this scenario? If it was to work this way, then theoretically we wouldn't have to pay for any services. Plumber fixed my leaking sink but I decided I won't pay him because I didn't like his bum crack sticking out (?). To me it looks like the photographer cashed in for the job, knows the OP is fairly new to the business and is unlikely to put his foot in, or he is befriended with the B&G and they will be happy to back each other up.




  
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Hogloff
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Aug 16, 2013 20:12 |  #102
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Bakewell wrote in post #16214030 (external link)
What? ???

Do you know the exact facts around this case? Thought not. Then, its just speculation...right.




  
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bigjon0107
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Aug 16, 2013 21:31 |  #103

As someone who hires seconds for probably 40 events a year, if I had those things come back about one of my shooters I would never deal with them again. Period. Something seems fishy with the photog in this (which I know has been said many times). And I also am on the camp the the cards downloaded in the background. A simple setting in Photomechanic can auto start the injest. Add a USB 3 or FireWire reader the total copy time would be just a few min.

I would run from more work with this guy. He WILL crash and burn sooner or later if this is SOP for him in any amount. You don't want to be tied to him when that happens. A couple hundred bucks is not worth the drama that could unfold when clients come looking for images, etc...


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icacphotography
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Aug 16, 2013 22:02 |  #104

Talley wrote in post #16198553 (external link)
Easy solution for you since you have no contract.

Format/Delete and move on. Therefore if the TOG lied to you and needs the images when then he is screwed and it's his fault for not having a contract with you. If he indeed manage to copy the images over and hand them over then your screwed for not having a contract with him.

either way. Delete and move on. This is a learning experience. This is what I would do. If he lied to you and the B&G did not receive the photos then trust me he will get his payback when the B&G attack him for the images which are now gone :)

This ^ so much this. Why should you the OP keep the images if you're not getting paid for them or the photog that had the contract with the couple is saying he no longer wants them? delete/format the cards and move on. If the B&G come back later to him wanting the images it's his &*%^! that'll get burned not yours. Far as I'm concerned he never paid you for services rendered so why should you waste space on your memory cards to store the RAW images for him? Like I said delete the images and format the card and serve this A hole a taste of his own medicine so that if he comes knocking you can tell him without lying you no longer have the images and he can go pound sand. He;ll get sued and go OOB and nobody will be the wiser about you.


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Hogloff
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Aug 16, 2013 23:24 |  #105
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icacphotography wrote in post #16214841 (external link)
This ^ so much this. Why should you the OP keep the images if you're not getting paid for them or the photog that had the contract with the couple is saying he no longer wants them? delete/format the cards and move on. If the B&G come back later to him wanting the images it's his &*%^! that'll get burned not yours. Far as I'm concerned he never paid you for services rendered so why should you waste space on your memory cards to store the RAW images for him? Like I said delete the images and format the card and serve this A hole a taste of his own medicine so that if he comes knocking you can tell him without lying you no longer have the images and he can go pound sand. He;ll get sued and go OOB and nobody will be the wiser about you.

No compassion what's so ever for the B&G here. Yeh, I'd sure hire your services as a photographer.




  
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I'm getting screwed (Wedding/Payment)
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