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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 12 Aug 2013 (Monday) 14:37
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First time flash purchase need help between the YN586II or 560III

 
Nightdiver13
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Aug 13, 2013 19:00 |  #16

I'm not sure what you mean by "backwards compatible", but if you want TTL, then you have to use a Canon specific flash, whether that means a Canon branded flash or a third party maker such as Yongnuo, Nissan, Phottix, etc.


Neil

  
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draderusa
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Aug 13, 2013 19:07 as a reply to  @ post 16205592 |  #17

I'm sure you could probably use a Nikon flash in some really limited way on a remote manual trigger but you could never use it on camera in ETTL and certainly not with your camera's flash control menu system. You will want to stick with Canon type flash models. Even the pins on the bottom of a Nikon flash are not all in the same positions as a Canon flash.


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digitalduck
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Aug 15, 2013 10:50 |  #18

Guys, I hate to even say it, but what if i look at a lower flash, since im just starting out, that will do ettl and manual... what if i dont need the hss..as much as i hate to say it, ill be taking shots outside in daylight as well and wil need a trigger for it.. i know Yongnuo makes some cheap $20-30 and that dont do hss so it woudl work with a flash that only does ettl and M as well..




  
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Nightdiver13
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Aug 15, 2013 11:40 |  #19

I wouldn't do it. Yongnuo has made significant improvements every year that they've been making flashes. This isn't just in the features they offer but in the more important (IMO) aspects of build quality and functionality. Get one of their more current flashes.

What is your budget?


Neil

  
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digitalduck
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Aug 15, 2013 11:46 |  #20

Well, I can do the 568exII but would only have about $50 left.. so could still do their cheaper triggers but they dont do HSS i believe.




  
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Nightdiver13
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Aug 15, 2013 12:03 |  #21

Do you specifically know that you want off-camera ETTL via radio? It sounds like you're just getting started in the flash world, and if that's the case, just take it one step at a time. Get a flash and get to know it for a while. Use it shoe mounted and bounce it, or take it off camera and trigger it optically via your 60D popup. After you've used it for a while you'll have a better idea of what you need for the images you want to create. At that point you can revisit the trigger question and/or flash(s).


Neil

  
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sirquack
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Aug 15, 2013 12:34 |  #22

DD, have you considered the Yongnuo 565ex? It is TTL capable, has an external power supply port and I just looked and they can be had for less than $140. Add a pair of Yongnuo 622C triggers for $85 and you are out for a little less than $225.
I personally have the YN565ex flash and it shoots both manual and TTL. I will be getting the 568 as my next flash purchase to get the HSS capability.
But the cost of the 568 is currently $185 so for the $45 additional charge over the 565 and not having the external power supply port, I am holding off.
As others have said, manual should be on any flash you own. It just opens up so many more possibilities being able to tone down the power. TTL is great, don't get me wrong. But I honestly shoot manual about 90% of the time. TTL is only something I rely on when the conditions change drastically over short periods of time.
And I am like you, I only started shooting flash a few months ago. The difference between speedlite and on camera flash is like going from a skateboard(on camera flash) to a race car(speedlite). It will definitely change the way you take your shots.
This shot was taken with my YN565ex from about 50 feet away on manual. I think I was at either 1/4 or 1/2 power. And it was outside at night.

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Los Lobos60.jpg (external link) by sirquack (external link), on Flickr

Name is Ron.
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digitalduck
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Aug 15, 2013 13:13 |  #23

Thanks guys... I have been waiting for someone to mention the 565 as an option and not just say go for the 586 right now.. Its funny the title of this thread was deciding between it and the 560 so i was definetely looking at others.. bottmomline is this, i REALLY want to have a flash that does M and perhaps TTL because I will be doing a freinds engagement photos soon (i know) but I know once i get my flash ill be practicing with my wife and daughter enough, in and outdoors, but for serious shoots i will need a radio trigger becuase it will be outside. I also want to learn with an umbrella. Not to jump too much into it, but I know I can learn faster by diving in.. So I want to use a trigger right away... anyone who has a flash can bounce and point their flash straight up.. i am excited to learn more, faster.... so ideas? I REALLY would like to have one with HSS and no TTL and have it be the same cheaper price.. why isnt there one like that?

So bottom line...Definetely want M I agree with all of you... TTL is optional, HSS optional as well...Trigger? YES

UPDATE: Also, then what about just doing a pair of RF-603's or something?




  
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sirquack
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Aug 15, 2013 13:43 |  #24

The 603's are definitely a possibility as well. The major differences that I have read about them.
603 - No TTL capability - No AF assist beam - no adjustment of flash power from camera (adjusted only from flash itself) - no multi flash group support - provides wireless shutter release
622 - TTL/HSS capable (Flash must support these modes as well) - Grid AF assist beam - can make changes to flash via the Canon menu system on camera - Supports flash group firing.
So either would work if you have just a starter speedlite. I plan on getting the 622's myself since I don't want to spend my money twice for the same functionality for TTL and HSS once I get a flash that supports HSS.
But YMMV.


Name is Ron.
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KirkS518
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Aug 15, 2013 14:31 |  #25

If you really want to save some $$$, and flash power isn't a main concern, look at the YN467 or YN468II, and get a set of either the 602's or the 603's. You'll be in for probably less then $100, and have a very capable start-up set.


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Sens0r
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Aug 15, 2013 14:39 as a reply to  @ KirkS518's post |  #26

Does the 568II EX support AF-Assist in low light?


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digitalduck
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Aug 15, 2013 14:57 |  #27

Awesome guys...thanks for letting me know that I can stil ldo this starting out, but still wanting to have a capable flash for decent work and practice without going 586 right away..although i realy want HSS I can still shoot into the sun and get the same effect with exp compensation... so what im looking at all the options youve mentioned, de we have a clear winner? Ijust need it to have enogh power for outdoor portraits mainly... indoor wont be an issue.

Its a shame that the the 603's do not support TTL....might have to look at 622s
565ex
$125.00

YN467
$93.00

YN-468II
$87.00

YN500ex
$150.00

YN560
$59.00

YN560 III

$72.00
or ???




  
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sirquack
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Aug 15, 2013 17:02 |  #28

I know I would go with the 565 again in a heartbeat. It has the power to take care of pretty much all of my needs. And because it does TTL and is manual, I can use it dialed down. I would definitely have too much power than not enough power.
I know I used it to take about 1000 photos at a martial arts competition where I was on manual and shooting a lot of 1/32 and 1/64 power. I only used one set of batteries all day for that shoot.
Good luck on your choice. Just think about what you really need it for and don't necessarily choose something because it works for someone else.


Name is Ron.
Bodies - 6D/5D3/7D2-Gripped
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digitalduck
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Aug 15, 2013 17:39 |  #29

Sirquack...can you compare it to the YN-468II beyond what I see? ttl, M, worth the price difference? all be it only $38 Love the name by the way.. since im digitalduck lol

Update: ahh i dont see that it would have an external power supply




  
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draderusa
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Aug 15, 2013 17:54 |  #30

digitalduck wrote in post #16210936 (external link)
Awesome guys...thanks for letting me know that I can stil ldo this starting out, but still wanting to have a capable flash for decent work and practice without going 586 right away..although i realy want HSS I can still shoot into the sun and get the same effect with exp compensation... so what im looking at all the options youve mentioned, de we have a clear winner? Ijust need it to have enogh power for outdoor portraits mainly... indoor wont be an issue.

Do the 603's do TTL or do I have to look at the 622C's?
565ex
$125.00

YN467
$93.00

YN-468II
$87.00

YN500ex
$150.00

YN560
$59.00

YN560 III

$72.00
or ???

The 603's do not do TTL. One thing to be aware of in HSS is that it drops the output of your flash by several stops to enable the longer flash duration necessary for HSS. In actuality you will have trouble overcoming bright sun with even the most powerful speedlite unless you place the flash very very close to your subject. Like no more than 2 feet if you are shooting through an umbrella. If you want radio TTL triggers and I believe you do, you want the YN-622's. They are the absolute cheapest TTL radio triggers on the market and they will work perfectly with your 60D. I would suggest if your budget will not allow the 568EXII and the YN622C's right now that you look at the cheaper YN-565EX flash so that you can still get the YN-622C's right away. As I mentioned several posts back the 565 is as powerful as the 568 and also has an external battery port. Less powerful flash units than the 565 and 568, even if they have HSS will not be near powerful enough to do what you want. The link I listed in one of my earlier posts on this thread contained some alternatives to HSS such as shooting at your max sync speed of 1/200th and using a Neutral Density filter in bright sun to lower the ambient light level. This will allow you to obtain the maximum power output from your flash in non HSS mode and have a better chance of overpowering the sun. If your budget right now won't allow for a 565EX and the YN 622C's I would probably suggest you drop down to a Manual flash like the high output YN-560II and use it with the YN-622's. That way later you could sell the cheaper flash for not much of a loss when you were able to move up to the 565 or the 568. Or you could just keep it and use it as an optical slave. If you want to go the cheapest route to start out I would get a 560II and a set of Comtrig T320 manual triggers. They will provide the same manual trigger functionality as the 603's at a similar price point but have two major advantages over the YN 603's. The power switch is on the side of the T-320's and on the top of the 603's. Once you mount a flash on top of a 603 it becomes very hard to turn them on or off. The big problem of the 603's is that they have no locking ring on the bottom to securely lock them onto your camera. People have had to resort to buying O-rings to slide over the bottom foot to increase the friction fit. I've owned both. Here is a review link comparing the T-320's to the YN-603's: http://flashhavoc.com/​flash-trigger-guide-manual/ (external link)


Dave
EOS 7D Mark II, EOS T4i -- EFS 18-135 STM, EFS 10-22 USM, EF 40 f2.8 STM, EF 50 f1.4, 600EX-RT (3), YN-E3-RT, AD-360, FT16 (2), YN560II, YN622C (4), YN622C-TX

  
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First time flash purchase need help between the YN586II or 560III
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